TIP: trigger Fruity patterns the live way!

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Angstrom
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TIP: trigger Fruity patterns the live way!

Post by Angstrom » Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:05 pm

Perhaps everyone knows this, but I didnt spot it on a search.

Theres been a lot of talk of a more dedicated drum programing section for live so I thought I'd throw this in for the Fruity/Live users.
Using Fruity as a rewire client you can integrate Fruity with Live and trigger fruity patterns, or groups of patterns as if they were 1 bar samples(or whatever length).
Even better than that, you can record your stabbings into Live's session view and then use the session patterns as "group patterns" of drums or whatever ...
try it you'll see what I mean:
  1. start live
  2. Start Fruity & open a fruity song
  3. Activate "Live" mode in Fruity Playlist (left corner dropdown)
  4. In Fruity Midi menu , set 'playlist live mode midi chanel' to 1
  5. In Live set a midi track output to Fruity, choose the first channel, ignore the name of the instrument (such as 'kick one') it won't get triggered - the patterns will.
  6. In a Live audio track, set 'audio from' to 'FL Studio'
  7. arm your midi channel to recive midi in. press play on live
  8. hit c2 on your midi input device, you should hear fruity pattern number one start playing.
  9. Hit d2 on your midi device ... guess what ... pattern number 2 starts playing.
doesnt work? read back through this list ... it should do!
8)

futureproof
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Post by futureproof » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:49 am

excellent!!
"THE biggest differences between Live 3 & 4 are the things that Live 4 have that are missing in Live 3"

-some dude on KVR.

Jomdom
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Post by Jomdom » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:24 am

Very awesome! I can see LOTS of fun to be had making banks upon banks of patterns in FL Studio to load up in Live via ReWire when I need something quick, but more advanced than simply an audio drumloop!
"No one cares, no one sympathizes; you just stay home and play synthesizers."
- Flight of the Conchords

ton
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Re: TIP: trigger Fruity patterns the live way!

Post by ton » Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:44 am

Angstrom wrote: ...
[*]hit c2 on your midi input device, you should hear fruity pattern number one start playing.
[*]Hit d2 on your midi device ... guess what ... pattern number 2 starts playing.
So is the only added value of using Fruity Loops in Live instead standalone for that suggested trick at least that I don't need to use my mouse to trigger the patterns of Fruity in its playlist (in Live Mode) but can use my midi keyboard to trigger the patterns? This isn't a big improvement for the end result sound for me or did I miss anything important here? Why should anybody want to use the strict midi keyboard triggering way for the Fruity patterns? Right now it seems to me that the Live Mode feature of Fruity Loops is more than enough. I can easily change my live recording later in the playlist and throw away the parts which didn't sound cool enough and keep the rest for building some arrangement out of them.

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:05 am

nope, you're missing something important here! ;)

you record those fruity notes into Live session clips to integrate the pattern triggering of both apps into one interface.
Then you can trigger Fruity patterns and groups of patterns from Live.

Why is that better?

Imagine a project where in fruity you have
pattern1 : kick and snare,
Pattern 2: hi hats
pattern 3: other hi hats
pattern 5 : extra snares
pattern 6 : congas.

Now, you may like to flip over from Live to Fruity to use the live mode over there to trigger those patterns alongide you Live song - but that's a bit weird and disjointed, using one interface for triggering patterns would be better!

Also in fruity - for live/messing about, you couldn't make a 'meta-group' of patterns for easy triggering. EG (for the above patterns) record the notes that trigger them into Live Session Clips.

group 1 : patterns 1& 2 (play C and D into a clip and call it 'kick snare & hats)
group 2 : patterns 1& 2 & 3 & 4 (play C, D,E,F into a clip and call it 'main Drums')
group 3 : patterns 1 & 6 (play C&A into a clip and call it 'breakdown')

to trigger those consistently in fruity while flipping back and forth from Live session triggering, then going to Fruity pattern roll to trigger fruit stuff over there. Aaaargh - not fun or editable in one environment for arranging.

BUT - if you record the keyboard notes assigned to the 6 patterns above into Live session clips like this

clip 1 : patterns 1& 2
clip 2 : patterns 1& 2 & 3 & 4
clip 3 : patterns 1 & 6


you can remain in Live and still trigger the Fruity patterns from the session clip interface, but additionally you can trigger them as groups (or separately if you need)


If you really like to edit your arrangements in two different applications with two different timelines running side by side - feel free!
but Live has an 'Arrangement page' which records what I trigger in session and this means you can arrange all your Fruity patterns(and meta-patterns) there ...
By keeping it in Live you can flip the arrangement in to jam those fruity patterns around in Session mode, make mistakes and edit it up in Arrangement. waaaay easier, more flexible - and more integrated than two apps side by side runnign two timelines with different parts of the song in my experience.


try it anyway - It will take me forever to explain how it is loads better.

once you have 10 Clips in session marked:

"fruity intro"
"fruity basic beat"

"fruity breakdown"
"fruity harder beat"
etc

and you have triggered them in live alongside your other live stuff .... that's when you wil get it!

ton
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Post by ton » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:24 am

Thanks Angstrom for your long detailed reply. I got it now. Well as far as I stood to make use of this trick one would need

- to use both applications at the same time (Ableton Live and Fruity Loops)
- to make use of meta-patterns-triggering (groups of patterns).

I don't need both of these possibilities yet. For me right now it's enough to arrange/activate my patterns in the playlist of Fruity Loops one by one. I just record a long time frame and play around with all kind of combinations and delete the recorded boring time frames where not enough changes happened or depending on what I wanted there.

As Ableton Live doesn't support ghost copying of clips similar as in Cubase I have that feature by using Fruity Loops. (see also my older postings for a more detailed description of this issue/problem).

Or described differently I really don't need all the special Ableton Live audio warping tricks much in these days. I'm working more midi based for which the ghost copying is more important to me. This means I can build an arrangement template and if I want later I can reuse this template and simply change my pattern contents (other melodies, basslines...) and also the sounds. But the logical arrangement concept might remain more or less the same and I don't need to do lots of stupid rework which is maybe not neccessary always. I always wanted that way of arrangement workflow and I have it since Fruity Loops 5 is available.

Happy music making!

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:04 am

Fair enough, One thing though ...
As Ableton Live doesn't support ghost copying of clips
using this method your Fruity clips do become 'ghost' clips becasue if you record a C2 to Live arrangement 16 times for 16 bars. then decide you want that pattern (triggered from C2) to be slightly different - if you edit that pattern in Fruity you will have all the ghost benefits.


If you are resolved to do all your editing in Fruity - well you are tougher than me! I like fruity for lots of things, but that interface aint the best.

ton
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Post by ton » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:26 pm

Angstrom wrote:Fair enough, One thing though ...
As Ableton Live doesn't support ghost copying of clips
using this method your Fruity clips do become 'ghost' clips becasue if you record a C2 to Live arrangement 16 times for 16 bars. then decide you want that pattern (triggered from C2) to be slightly different - if you edit that pattern in Fruity you will have all the ghost benefits.


If you are resolved to do all your editing in Fruity - well you are tougher than me! I like fruity for lots of things, but that interface aint the best.
Wow, this is a new insight! Ok, thought that way indeed Fruity Loops "brings" that missing ghost copying feature to Ableton Live. Now I can start rethinking. This means that I have at least NO DISADVANTAGES by using the Ableton Live arrangement interface (together with Fruity Loops) rather than using only Fruity Loops, from working with midi parts and ghost copying of view. Have you maybe some more reasons to use the Ableton Live arrangement interface rather than Fruity Loops playlist (with Live Mode)? What's also important to me are all the nice automating/controlling possibilities I have in Fruity Loops. If I wouldn't get many more advantages by using the Ableton Live interface it wouldn't make much sense (wouldn't bring many improvements) the way I'm making music these days.

Angstrom how are you working with Ableton Live and Fruity Loops in a little more detail maybe? Why do you prefer editing (audio or midi, or both) in Ableton Live? Which editing feature is missing for you in Fruity Loops or what is better in Ableton Live? Do I understand it correctly that you load your most vsti synthesizer and samplers into Fruity Loops and use Ableton Live just for triggering the right patterns and maybe also for other audio samples/loops directly used in Ableton Live?

barton986
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Post by barton986 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:09 am

ok, this seems like it has BOATLOADS of potential (when I started using Live i kept thinking about how it would be even better if they somehow merged the program with Fruity, and low and behold they already had), but i'm having some problems with it...

i followed those instructions to the T...

some of my loops/patterns from fruity will play ok (my c1 pattern specifically)
the rest appear to be playing in fruity (ie the level meters are going crazy), but i'm getting no sound at all...
also my one pattern that plays ok also starts itself as soon as i hit play in Live

this is the first time i've tried to use ReWire so i guess i'm having some problems because of that...

any help would be greatly appreciated

-jon
Bop Bang Pow!

barton986
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Post by barton986 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:28 am

ok, i think i've figured out some things:

- fruity needs to be set to play the "song" as opposed to the pattern
- need to press play in fruity before going back to live
- the audio channel in live needs to be armed for recording

these things seem to fix most of my problems but i still get random patterns that won't send any audio through and i'm hellaconfused as to how all this is working...

is there something i need to set up to not have to do all that stuff above?
Bop Bang Pow!

SonnyBonnier
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Post by SonnyBonnier » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:31 am

Hmm... I think I´m gonna have to change my views on FruityLoops... Don´t know why this program has got such a bad rep for being un-pro; clearly, a lot of people who knows what they´re talking about is obviously using it so...

Just a thought...

s[riteboy
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Post by s[riteboy » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:34 pm

FL is the perfect sketch pad... I used it for my live sets before LIVE came along. I usually get the basic ideas done in FL then export them into Ableton and finish the production there.

Does running FL with Ableton LIVE not eat up processing power?

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:34 pm

Fortunately my laptop copes fine.

normally if I get anything good that has had a bit of work on it and then seems to be staying the same I tend to render the 'fruity clips' to audio Live clips .. because I know that if I dont - when I come back to it in 6 months I will have updated something which will make it all sound different. the fruity patterns allways come in useful for doing extra fillsif required further down the road.

funknotik
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Post by funknotik » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:32 am

This is exactly to a tee what i have been trying to do. I have used flstudio for the past 6 yrs, and I feel as though i have become one with it. I can do pretty much everything I want within it. Only thing i cant do is use it live, which is why i bought ableton. I think flstudio is much better for mashing up breaks and editing drums. I would have samples running in ableton and breaks and the like in flstudio. Unfortunatly i made the horrible mistake of purchasing a powerbook about 8 months ago in which i cannot run flstudio. If this works well on my pc ill smash my powerbook and get a nusystems laptop so i can run both flstudio and ableton in perfect harmony!

Flstudio Love.
Two technics 1210 turntables, alot of guitars, 2gig Sony vgz fz290, 2gig frankenstein pc, mbox, ableton, flstudio, recycle, the infinity gauntlet, and alot of spare time..

svrider1000
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Post by svrider1000 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:49 pm

I followed this step by step but when I hit C2 it makes a kick beat sound and D2 makes a snare sound. I tried it over and over.

Thanks

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