Ableton Forum

So Cakewalk is relasing new Sonar X1 in December: http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/X1-Overview.aspx.

How about it Ableton? Any chance to see Live 9 before christmas?

Too early to tell yet, but it appears to be mostly a workflow/GUI overhaul. Some nice channel strip modeling thrown in at the premium level. But the major limitation (for me) with Sonar has been it's lack of free routing. Something that we take for granted in Live.
The workflow enhancements are refreshing but they come at a price. Minimum specs: Core 2 Duo (E8200) 2.67 GHz! In reality it'll prolly take something like an i5/i7 to run stable.

simpleton wrote:Too early to tell yet, but it appears to be mostly a workflow/GUI overhaul. Some nice channel strip modeling thrown in at the premium level. But the major limitation (for me) with Sonar has been it's lack of free routing. Something that we take for granted in Live.
The workflow enhancements are refreshing but they come at a price. Minimum specs: Core 2 Duo (E8200) 2.67 GHz! In reality it'll prolly take something like an i5/i7 to run stable.

So true. And don't get my op wrong.. I wasn't cheering for Sonar In fact, the new update looks quite cluttered and too busy. Would be nice though to see new Live with 64-bit support already, eh?

The competition is getting harder and harder in the DAWs.
The unsexy dinosaurs like Sonar give itself a new style against fresh developments like Studio One.
And not to forget the fallen prices!
We will see how Ableton is striking back.
OK, it was a mistake to announce to many projects and getting hanged in the details, but the current approach to be completely silent is not better. I have said it at the beginning of the year already: I have my annual recording budget to spend just it is my hobby and if i got no fantasy from the companies i like and i want to support usually the danger to cheat increases.
So if the money is spent once elsewhere i´m IN for the other special prices. So it might be happen very fast that i´m in a situation where i have to ask myself: Do i really need this new version or is my money better spent elsewhere for crazy sleazy Poser-RocknRoll. I´m doubtfull if Live then will jump into my anual Top 5 must haves.
Just my 2 cents

As a person who uses both live and Sonar I’ll be upgrading to X1 mainly because I’m still on 8 so upgrading will give me X1 free.
How can Ableton strike back? Well, I use Sonar for mastering and mixing. I’m sure there will be many here who will disagree with me but live just does not cut it when it comes to mastering a final mix. Sonar has far better mastering tools and a better quality final output than Live.

OK sorry i think i was not clear enough with my to long statement.


My question is not which DAW is better because that should everybody know himself but where will i spent my money next year!

don't need this. I've got Live.

I don't think Ableton should rush release Live 9 just because Cakewalk are releasing a new product. Cakewalk make good product but are not a massive player in the industry, and their product is PC only, a lot of Mac users run Live.

Live 8 isn't even fixed satisfactorily yet in the view of a lot of users.

64 bit is still a bit of a ballache with bitbridging and plugins - Sonar is a bit better than some DAWS in this regard, as they have had 64 bit options since Sonar 5, but not perfect.

Live's output is fine BTW (IMO and that of many others). Although I agree other DAWS have some extra plugins and tools which make them more suited for mixing down, I tend to mix in Cubase for this reason, but it has nothing to do with Live's rendering, which if you're careful and follow the correct procedures re Hi-Q, SRC and warp modes is just fine.

First off, I think Sonar X1 looks great, and I like it that they have added the ProChannel: taking a cue from Propellerhead Record maybe, but it seems a no-brainer to have decent eq and compression built right into the mix channels without constantly adding plugins. Wish Ableton would do it too.

Second, saying that one doesn't need Sonar because one owns Ableton is missing the point. A huge number of top professionals use Ableton for stage work, jamming, experimenting, etc. But check with pretty much all of them and they have another piece of software which they describe as their "DAW", usually Logic or Pro Tools, sometimes Cubase, Reaper or Sonar (etc).

Third, this should not affect Ableton's timescale. However, it probably should add to the pressure on them to provide better value for money. The new Sonar costs noticeably less than the previous one, a trend that copies the price reduction in Cubase 5 and Logic 8/9. Ableton is looking increasingly way overpriced compared to all the main alternatives.

Lastly, the bigger announcement this/next month will be Pro Tools 9, widely reported to be without any hardware restrictions - i.e. anyone will be able to use it with their chosen interface/etc. Also with 128 tracks and (finally) ADC. This could well blow open the market and be a game-changer, simply because of its reputation. Definitely the one to watch.

Yikes, i wouldn't know how to work with that interface and all those menus... scary.

Cakewalk wrote:one of the most modern and (dare we say) beautiful user interfaces available.

Really? To me it just looks awful, cluttered and modern would be the last word i'd use to describe it.

Nothing against the product itself, just isn't for me.

Same thing happens to me everytime i try to mess around with Reaper.
I downloaded the demo and once in a while i open it up, but i give up shortly after, because my brain is so routined in the Ableton way of working (i keep trying to rename files in any application by ctrl+r) that i just get lost for minutes trying to do a very simple task, looking around in menus, until i say, ok, that's enough of that, back to Live.

We'll have to see about Protools 9, but even if it does include finally include ADC, it will probably still have track limitations, no freeze function and it remains to be seen if they will allow it to co-exist with non approved hardware - the new Protools HD Native version still requires a digidesign approved interface (as well as a PCI-E card).

I've never been a fan of Cakewalk GUIs and this X1 is no different - too busy for me. Sonar is a great program with a lot of good plugins, but it's workflow and GUI have never agreed with me.

Agreed about pricing. Ableton need to give some consideration for reducing the prices on it's product, especially The Suite version. Now it's been around 3 years, people don't value those bundles instruments as highly, especially when NI has reduced the price on Komplete by about $300 in that time period. It would make more sense to get the normal Live and Komplete than pay for the Suite version as things stand at this time.

Reaper requires a lot of time customizing it, but at least it's very flexible and once you've set it up how you like it, it's GUI can be good (although I agree that the stock GUI is not the most user friendly) and ditto the mixer and effects.

leedsquietman wrote:I've never been a fan of Cakewalk GUIs and this X1 is no different - too busy for me. Sonar is a great program with a lot of good plugins, but it's workflow and GUI have never agreed with me.

That makes two of us.

leedsquietman wrote:Agreed about pricing. Ableton need to give some consideration for reducing the prices on it's product, especially The Suite version. Now it's been around 3 years, people don't value those bundles instruments as highly, especially when NI has reduced the price on Komplete by about $300 in that time period. It would make more sense to get the normal Live and Komplete than pay for the Suite version as things stand at this time.

I hope they read this^^


A little OT: A couple of folks broke camp from Steinberg and started to make a new host. And now S1 is attracting a lot of users from different camps.

In that vein I recall a few folks leaving the Ableton camp. They too are making something new. And I have no doubt that the good folks at Ableton are aware that it might be aimed squarely at their market. With that in mind I think the next version of Live will be something incredibly stable and reasonably priced

I use both Sonar 8.5 and live, and they are very different beasts with some overlap. i usually sketch and arange my stuff in Live then move over to sonar because it's mastering plug-ins work well for me, and i find i can sculpt sound better in that enviroment. I like the new look: compared to what it was its light years ahead, but I would never let something as superficial as looks get in the way of a good DAW. I just wish Cakewalk would up the ante on the Project 5/ Ableton rip off the matrix view to get it up to level of where Lives session view is.
This is where Live excells, and we all know it!

http://www.gewerbeauskunft.de/wirtschaf ... 8.txt.html