Ableton Forum

Hi,
I know it is silly but I just don't know how to do this: how to make objects contained in patchers be visible in the main presentation view. I have checked "open in presentation" in the patcher inspectors and that is obviously not enough.
I know bpatcher is kind of a power tool for that kind of purposes (haven't exactly understood how it works for now) but I don't need anything fancy or dynamic: just to see that specific message or number box in the main view.

thank you for suggestions,
toscanini

bpatcher isn't much fancier than a patcher. The only difference is that you have to load the patcher as an extra file. Which comes with a few advantages if you're using multiple of these.

There is no other way really. Bpatcher is the only way to visually add interfaces from a subpatcher to the main patcher.

Hmm. Thank you for the answer, good to know. At least it made me reread info about bpatchers and abstractions, I start to understand much better.
In my specific case though I wonder if it is worth to use a bpatcher. I am looking for a better patch readability and with bpatchers I might lose more than win. I come from Reaktor and I am used to UI elements showing wherever they are nested in the structure.
...So I guess I should use sends and receives and kind of clone objects to mirror what happens deep in the structure on the highest level.

If we're talking about just a few numberboxes here, just redo them outside the patcher or with some send/receive. (or pvar or pattr or... Loads of options really)

If you built a whole interface full with bells and whistles, it makes no sense to rebuild it outside the patcher. In that case bpatcher comes in handy.

Here's an example of how I'd use bpatcher for interfaces.
Imagine you made a special knob and want to use it 16 times. If you copy/paste it till you have 16, its going to be a real pain in the ass when you want to update something or fix a bug. Since bpatcher loads an external file, I only need 1 file for 16 bpatchers. And if I update the file, all the bpatchers are instantly updated.

It really all depends on what you're trying to do and what your skill level is.
I consider myself reasonably skilled when it comes to Max/MSP, but I'm sure some of the more advanced patchers would laugh at my methods. You can make almost any idea work in about 100 different ways.

You might be interested in this web tutorial I posted on Cycling74.com awhile back:
http://cycling74.com/2008/06/30/freshen ... #more-1886

While the article wasn't written specifically for Max for Live, a lot of it is applicable there.

Thank you for the tips, guys, I am slowly getting there...
cheers,

hoffman2k wrote: There is no other way really. Bpatcher is the only way to visually add interfaces from a subpatcher to the main patcher.

Almost anything is possible, but maybe in a different way as thought on first sight...;-)
I would simply put a duplicate from that inside object into the main patcher and connect it for example with a pattr...
But as UI objects inside subpatchers are lame anyway, I'd simply replace it with a pattr, and bind that pattr to the UI object in the main patch...
This has another advantage, with the pattr, you can use almost any Max UI object as automatable, not just the Live.x objects...

This might get you an idea:

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
1082.3oc6W87jhiBE9r9WAUN2qklXT29zbcNrUsmlKSMkEIfJ6j.oBn18z07
+9BORhfB1o6c5KSsGLwvCd7890GOdY5jjBwSTYB5QzWQSl7xzISfgLCLo66I
I03mJqvRXZIkh5ZJWk7fUlh9jBFWcfIQ7i0EzVsBPGv5uDnSLIqnhhJEbNsT
wDbz4CXkTPOQamMaVuZpXZwhibPWYcCtSvUR1OnlwVrX17tg0aBiWQU.dVzM
XCVUdfw2usUuMV6YwF8RzKLEdk8mlWKWOaN5acqgQ.jKJ9m+XUxEkKNp509b
Gjvw0.RR9Bskf43DineNcp4wCiz4UwNQmQX3p9s6DtcPu2HzBD0yMTqAkj7.
JYWk.qMvu8FcFoVuQN7b4x64KVF1WjNn7VMhUz1sTNVGac2XI9DkrEqTsrhi
J5k+I6bJcdEigWcjJ10Ob+3tpu2v6BBdxXblR6obfPnYIOHZUQ8udSsVPzQJ
vVRWOKjxpD78iWWLN.pvZhw+tQSxX31n.A4NF+NAfhPa9QsmQFUpnkPaioWB
cWbgxFJkTwpAWTPyRpnMx3XtiJH1DnO0H3TKAPX8i4bgBa3P1NDGh5ATOGeq
pekHc8knmUHTk2+5MVxyom0EUgp2w2vg1fvHn1EcloNn+3Be5mQmEGqHnyXt
BoDHIkhXbTSKUpcZfWAA4LgHTS+0Pnl1yntx7J09JKKLKR16fQ0cqsYhtTF6
XUlSMjZS0AnSRt.vUo.We5x4.+1hL.fFKsGg5n09JQ42oD2jiDcl+aSKhFJ+
xJfI58velLtab55cFerRsMbnwW9NbIM5hi3LmjrukQDbCL7VqY39MTeVYNDY
ycQNLCNtIvhUBQUAt0ojdHZnSVwbVMVQULKhRmOrNVcSKylSNLlkB+frrUTU
4oJqjSAjPnmXkzyLh5fOMqe+LtGr3Vm5M98pWuol8uMjDtBuT6ZNqCAxQepf
wI5hTMkhNn+3i+0y2rtfmsC+FB.wqXiV0Fqxc8Ra3cMjXmYqecSSizNTfB3r
qPWr7NakoTIZ6rv0qtZ+rMKn2NMLCzofePJbeGyGj2QQ69OKG86JG.ncua3x
jEqiVEX99OxHVJDpxm+ZAr73ArzWKf8KzwAl28Sy8r.OOx7w3Qrswml2+LlC
IMtCw0y2eaFnWh.NhKrglCTiPr.f0HOrGRJN1V1a+cUWHefSzEJL9voCecHn
d07NvHDepXHDvHMBcBYG71jMKWm5rARcVs41OrGb2MsEPY4nxAdq1Y9HsyUu
O67CB0oerQmfntaPM7mNFpwWFYyC5VcJvUcsScSOyIA6o3iqQj3jOuqFqgqf
YXp0yJP209m4Np6R61jlCwSNzN3FK8ypq6SZzcO+Jp45NDWbaK0o+NewbuH4
+4qlees8+WN+27KmCUU9GYaoTt9vfNhkaNDXoK4djC.x7lyMj+gI9G.3zeN8
eAjphUTO
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

Yeah. Bad phrase from me. There's always a way. It just depends how much lengths you really want to go through. Pattr is indeed a very versatile little object. But I prefer bpatchers features opposed to updating many copies. There is "paste replace", but that gets a bit tricky when there are many copies with custom arguments.
It all depends on the situation really. After almost 5 years I still feel like a beginner at Max. But I always get the job done, no matter how convoluted and messy the patch is.

Hey,
thank you for keeping an interest in this thread. Indeed it seems like a very personal choice why one would prefer one method over another and I honestly don't know yet which will be mine... as of now I keep putting comment boxes next to the patchers' inlets - they have a white backgound, so much for the personal touch - but I can already see that I might run into cold-hot inlet issues with my patchers unnecessarily... With pattr that would go away, Stefan, thank you for the example. Pattr... I can feel that I must get really comfortable with pattr since I will need it all the time.