Ableton Forum

New member here .. guys.. I finally join this forum due to the kindness, knowledge and professional attitude of everybody here. Very impressive.

.. my question is: How would I hook up 2 turntables/2CDJ with my Ibook running Reason 2.0/ Ableton Live .. I want to be able to trigger drum loops/Synths in sync with the playing record in order to spice up my set a little bit, sort of like a live remix on the fly.

I have heard about Midi Clock software that would let me control MidiClock on External gear, but how would I get tempo from the Turntable? Do i need an extra gear hooked up to the turntable to do this?

I hope my question doestn't sound too confusing....

Thanks much

Hi - welcome to the forum!
I am far from an expert on this but I have never seen or heard of a turntable (CD or vinyl) with any sort of midi.
Or maybe I mis-understood your question, in which case just ignore me... ; )

a company by the name of redsound made an automatic bpm detector that output a midi signal to which you could sync. I don't think they make it anymore, but you might be able to find one on ebay.

otherwise, i'd suggest using the tap tempo function in live, though it's not perfect to syncing with vinyl from what i hear.

k

Frag...

No, you are right on the money. That's my problem. No turntables or CDJ can give you a Midiclock, so I can not sync it with my Ibook.
I know that there gotta be an external Midiclock device or something that will allow me to do this. Wouldn't it be so nice, if you can dj with your turntables/CDJ and trigger a drum loop or whatever in sync.... It is like a live remix...

How would I do this guys? any idea?

Thanks

I understand that you want to avoid what I am going to suggest, but as the thread is titled "how would you do it?" -
I'd record all my tracks to hard disc and mix on the laptop....

...forgot to say that in my experience BPM counters aren't accurate enough for it to work (at least as far as beatmixing - I guess you could get the tempo virtually there and dropmix).
Having said that, I haven't used any kind of BPM counter for a few years, so there will be more informed opinions out there.
Good luck....

yes you need extra gear. specifically something to midi-fy the decks. the red sound piece mentioned will do, or else the x series electribe boxes will convert incoming audio to bpm. you could then slave the computer to this.

or search the forum archives and see how AdamJay does this without extra gear. you can more or less do it by hand using a midi controller as bpm adjustment. in which case you would need a (duh) controller.. at least.

here is how i sync turntables to Ableton.

i dont really sync it, i match the beats. But if you are familiar with a Technics 1200 then you will find this to be one of the best methods.

these are step by step instructions, so follow closely if this is the route you want to take....

get yourself a midi controller with at least 1 slider. i personally use the UC33, it has 9 sliders, but you can use any controller so long as it has a slider. Doepfer Pocket Dial is a good one. the UC33 is only $189 though and has USB so it may be one of the cheapest options.

okay... now go into arranger view in Ableton Live. go into the main channel and go into Song Tempo. here you can set a minimum/maximum bpm value to control with a midi controller. lets say you are mixing records at around 130bpm or so. set the minimum to 137 and the max to 143.

now, download MidiYoke and MidiOX from midiox.com
MidiYoke is a driver for Virtual Midi inputs/outputs and MidiOX is a translator utility. Install them both.

In live, assign your midi controller as MidiYoke Ch.1
in MidiOX assign your midi devices as UC-33 or equivalent midi controller as the input, and MidiYoke Ch.1 as the output.. this will patch your controller into Live.
Now, while you are still in MidiOX, click on the Midi Data Mapping Transforms button (looks like a red note and a blue note with an arrow between them). Click insert. Change "when input channel matches:" event type to "CTRL", Assign Min CTRL # and Max CTRL # to the CTRL# of the slider you are using to control tempo. on the UC33 the default is CC#28 for the master slider. set Min amount to 0 and Max amount to 127
now, below it where it says "set output to" repeat all of the above numbers except the Min/Max amount. invert those. Min = 127, Max = 0.
Hit ok, Hit ok again. Minimize MidiOX but do not close it.

You just inverted one of your midi sliders, so now it operates like a Technics 1200 pitch control. bringing the slider toward you will increase BPM, pushing it away will decrease BPM.

Now, in Ableton click Midi (if the preferences window pops up, select Midi Yoke 1 as your midi remote control input), click on the BPM box in the top left of the Ableton window. then move the slider to assign it.

Now, when you slide the slider down it should go to 143bpm, when you slide it up it should go to 137bpm.

your computer will now act as a third turntable and you will rock many crowds and get many requests for autographs have fun with it.

"You just inverted one of your midi sliders, so now it operates like a Technics 1200 pitch control. bringing the slider toward you will increase BPM, pushing it away will decrease BPM."

Damn....that's cool....!!!

Can the slider be used in 14bit mode? This would be better for really fine pitch adjustments..

I suppose you could get it close and re-pitch the deck to get around the 127 granularity.

Sorry if this post is guff, but I`m new to live / midi and I haven`t received my controller yet (bah!).

the system suggested by adamjay looks very intersting...
i never thought about making this way.
my previous experiences with the redsound stuff was good. already years ago they produced a small box called "voyager" who could recognize the beat and send the midi clock to a sequencer. in the first version it worked acceptable. but a beat has to be always present (otherwise the sending of midi clock will stop for a while, and crash the tempo). i heard about a new model of this machine and can imagine it is pretty reliable.
in my case (i'm not dj and i'm not intersted to mix vinyl) the redsound machine is the best solution.
but if you are already able to mix vinyl the solution suggested by adamjay is surely more interesting for you.

plonkman wrote:Can the slider be used in 14bit mode? This would be better for really fine pitch adjustments..

I suppose you could get it close and re-pitch the deck to get around the 127 granularity.

Sorry if this post is guff, but I`m new to live / midi and I haven`t received my controller yet (bah!).

it works in 14-bit, but when i want "fine adjustments", i simply tune the min/max bpm in arranger to be closer. i.e. 139-141bpm
however, to give you an idea: with a range of 5bpms like 138 to 143, slowly moving the fader in 14-bit i get about .03 bpm per increment.

it works fine for me really.

Behringer BCF would be another good option, longer throw faders and 14-bit as well.

AdamJay wrote: In live, assign your midi controller as MidiYoke Ch.1
in MidiOX assign your midi devices as UC-33 or equivalent midi controller as the input, and MidiYoke Ch.1 as the output.. this will patch your controller into Live.
Now, while you are still in MidiOX, click on the Midi Data Mapping Transforms button (looks like a red note and a blue note with an arrow between them). Click insert. Change "when input channel matches:" event type to "CTRL", Assign Min CTRL # and Max CTRL # to the CTRL# of the slider you are using to control tempo. on the UC33 the default is CC#28 for the master slider. set Min amount to 0 and Max amount to 127
now, below it where it says "set output to" repeat all of the above numbers except the Min/Max amount. invert those. Min = 127, Max = 0.
Hit ok, Hit ok again. Minimize MidiOX but do not close it.

You just inverted one of your midi sliders, so now it operates like a Technics 1200 pitch control. bringing the slider toward you will increase BPM, pushing it away will decrease BPM.

Or you could physically twist the uc-33 clockwise by 180 degress and use it back to front

Komplex wrote: Or you could physically twist the uc-33 clockwise by 180 degress and use it back to front

har har smartass! i'll take you seriously for shits and correct you and say draw-bar mode would do the same thing. lol

You`re up late... or early..

Thanks.