Ableton Forum

I've been thinking a lot about staring up a label, where instead of releasing tracks, you would just release the actual stems along with the midi files for each stem.

Now the "tracks" are ultra versatile. If you like the groove, but don't like the lead sound, just load up your own VST and boom, you're done! You can turn an electro into a techno,house, tech house, minimal and so on track in minutes and even make your own dubs from it and so on. As long as you like the groove and hook there's no reason you shouldn't buy it because you can use it any way you want to fit into your set.

And as an artist, you just have to come up with a 4 bar groove (just a groove really, length doesn't matter), and not even worry about doing the arrangement. Just mix it down and call it a day. Wouldn't even have to add effects, unless it makes up a specific sound.

Ideally we would be aiming this at Ableton DJs, but any DJ can scoop it up as you have the freedom to make your own arrangement and bounce it down.

Whatcha think? Could it work well? Is this the next generation of "record" labels and what DJ's could become?

Let me know what you're thinking, would love to hear some feedback

Cheers!

The idea is to get established producers to be doing the releases and to have a more consistent release schedule. I've seen the construction kits you speak, especially the one from Loopmasters but they don't provide the midi tracks and they really aren't that versatile.

I think it's a good idea.

The grey area obviously is copyrights.

Something like this would best be CC BY "Creative commons". This license lets others distribute, remix, tweak, and build upon your work, even commercially, as long as they credit you for the original creation.

But there are other versions of CC. Visit the site below to see your options.


http://creativecommons.org/licenses/

Now that's the part I'm having trouble with. I want people to manipulate and make it work for their set/style/sound, but I wouldn't want them to use parts from it in their own commercial tracks they release.

How about selling them and stating in the license you have to give credit if they're used for commercial work, that way you also get some promotion. Otherwise I don't see much point in buying a loop pack that I can't use to release music

rbmonosylabik wrote:How about selling them and stating in the license you have to give credit if they're used for commercial work, that way you also get some promotion. Otherwise I don't see much point in buying a loop pack that I can't use to release music

And when was the last time you read the microscopic print that contained credits etc for a track?

rbmonosylabik wrote:How about selling them and stating in the license you have to give credit if they're used for commercial work, that way you also get some promotion. Otherwise I don't see much point in buying a loop pack that I can't use to release music

You're not really buying a loop pack though. Imagine a producer making a track, but also releasing the stems along with it, as well as the midi tracks. The idea is to be able to manipulate in a way that it fits what you're doing, and to make each DJ/Ableton set sound unique and individual to that performer. So now you can really start to leave your mark on people, as they may recognize a certain part from the track, but they will really be impressed with what you've done with it and how you played it live and made it fit the mood and feeling for that particular moment in that specific club. Now the next night, you can still be playing the same track, but maybe the mood is different so you might strip it down, and use more subtle FX and groove it out instead of having it be a peak time bomb with a lot of buil up and drops.

Just to repeat, you're not buying these tracks to use the parts in your own commercial tracks, you're buying these parts to use in your DJ and performance sets and to be able to manipulate them and make them fit your style.

sounds pretty cool..
basically like buying a track but you get the steams..
or just buy some groves
but its like buying any other song to use as a DJ/sample based performer

you could offer different licensing schemes too
1 price that allows to be used in performances
and other prices for commercial releases
could have some set up so they could buy exclusive rights too..

personally i'd never use the service (not a DJ) but i bet people would
especially if you had some high profile producers contributing

What I'm saying is that you can't really control what a user does with your product once it's in their hands. I think the way you're describing the releases would sound to a costumer like a loops/samples pack, and when you buy one of those you expect to be free to put it to use however you want. So, if as the seller you tell me right out of the bat they can't be used for releases and they're meant just for live remixing, you're diminishing the value of the product, maybe to the point of turning your customer away. If I can't use these construction blocks however I want, what's to stop me from going to someone else who will sell stems/loops/samples with which I can do what you tell me I can with yours and then some more?

Then you run into the issue of enforcing the license. How do you stop someone from sticking one of your leads in their track and releasing it? That's not easy.

I do think it could work and be profitable, but it's better to consider how your costumers will want to use your products and shape them accordingly than idealize how you'd want them to use it, build restrictions around it, then struggle with a costumer when he steps outside those boundaries.

i think these guys have a similar idea.. (collaborating wise) http://hitrecord.org/featured it's a good idea. you should check up how they have their guidelines setup to fair uses. also someone above stated that "who reads the fine print". These guys made a video on the signup page so it's kind of unavoidable.

I think it could work if it is a regular label whose main, marketed feature is that it releases the remixable components of its track releases with its track releases. Like artists occasionally do as promotion of tracks i.e. remix competitions.
I think that otherwise it will seem too much like a restricted loop pack seller.

But with those loop packs you're usually paying a lot more and aren't really sure on what your getting, or may only like one and are stuck with the whole thing. And these producers really aren't making loops and samples, they are making full on tracks, just with out the arrangement. So you get the stems from an established producers work. And that's a big part of it, still promoting the artists and "tracks" as if it's a release for any other label.

As far as not being able to control what the consumer does, people still sample tracks all the time so I find that to be a moot point, but it is something I've been thinking about a lot as well. And people who do that usually get caught anyways so that's only going to hurt them in the long run.

And just to be clear, I appreciate everything you guys are saying as I need to hear this. Mucho appreciated!

Well, for the point of how much material you get, you can't compare a track's component stems with an entire loop pack really. Just the concept is very similar if that's all you focus on. It could turn out to be just like an artist-endorsed loop pack that you can choose from like a pick 'n' mix.
Like I said, I don't think it's a bad idea. It would just have to be handled carefully not to be misconstrued in the public eye(ear).

I'm imagining this as a kind of Beatport-esque site that offers the individual components of each track (as well as the full track) for purchase and download for DJs to use in regular sets, making it easier to implement particular elements of tracks in those sets that may otherwise be difficult to isolate in the actual track, as well as to use to make remixes with.

Is this the sort of idea you have too?

And I agree about the sampling/consumer control argument. The tracks and stems would be copyrighted like any other track, so would be illegal to use commercially without permission, no?

The idea is to have an artist make a "track", basically a 2 to 4 bar groove and maybe have certain tracks be longer if need be. They wouldn't just be making loops, they are actually trying to make a track where all the parts are EQ'd to fit together and so on.

And if you'd want to purchase it, it would be 3 or 4 bucks lets say, and you couldn't pick or choose what parts you wanted, you would just get all the stems and midi tracks with it.

I don't know how you guys work when making a track, but I know that I and a few other producers like to start by making a 2 to 4 bar loop and grove at the start of a session and then we make the arrangement from there by copy and pasting.

But I know a lot of guys just hate and dread doing the arrangement, but they already have a cool idea for a track ready to go so why not give them the option to release it as is and allow people to arrange it themselves anyway they want and make it work for them.

As funny as it sounds, what I really want to try and push is trying to make DJ/Ableton sets sound unique and individual from one to the next by allowing them to have total access and freedom with the tracks.

People already try and do that with their own edits of tracks, so why not just take it to the next step and push the boundaries of what a DJ set should be.

You could run into all sorts fo licensing issues with the sounds used to make the parts if they are sold as construction kits (which are effectively isolated loops, which in turn are resamplings of someone original sounds).

Now if you do all the sound design youself and thus avoid presets, and especiallyy soloing of sample based instruments, and/or never have any instrument you didnt create yourself solo'd, then you will be OK.
This issue only applies really to plugins that use samples in the creation of their sounds - you need to read the small print for each plugin that you use to know if its OK or not.

Often you just need to contact the plugin vendors and tell them exactly what you are doing and they will OK it with no costs.

What it comes down to is the use of plugins (particularly sample based) is often licensed for creating mixed tracks including mixed stems. However some explicitly prohibit un-concented use for creating clip/loop packs - which is effectively what you will be creating from a commercial perspective.

Just something to consider - thats all.