The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Mister36
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by Mister36 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:50 pm

It's a good point actually. Does Maschine have circular sensors? I thought the PadKontrol was supposed to have square sensors... I'm sure they marketed it with that as a selling point.

humnumb
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by humnumb » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:51 pm

T.I.M. wrote:some mpc's you can adjust the sensitivity.
What's even funnier and ironic is that the MPCs have the least responsive pads compared to what's been available out there, and that's even if you try to adjust the sensitivity to no avail. It doesn't even compare to the amount of sensitivity you can get from Maschine or padkontrol. MPC pads thus suffer from being limited to being only good for percussive triggering and failing miserably when it comes to doing things like playing multiple sustained notes in succession without the sound constantly cutting out. You have no such issues with Maschine and padkontrol pads. It's really night and day in how much difference there is to pad sensitivity and responsiveness. Besides, MPC pads are notorious for dying and prone to double triggering.

And as for how I didn't address everything in your rant... Please.
It was a nice try though. :lol:
T.I.M. wrote:I push many things forward and backward to create laziness or a rushed feel. Magic
There is no magical "MPC swing". Read that article where Roger talks about all that it really is: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2011/01/t ... e-tempest/

T.I.M.
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by T.I.M. » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:03 pm

Your experience dictates your opinion. I have never had a problem with the pads.

No need to get butt-hurt, You did go through the trouble of quoting certain points and left out others.

You didnt find it weird he said that out after his new product came out? Again the 5000 swing and quantize can be adjusted while playing and editing. I do think the different mpc's have different swing and sound. Of course its not magic, just saying....geez. :D

Mister36
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by Mister36 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:40 pm

hoffman2k wrote:The only pads that really worked well for me were the rectangular soft pads on the MC-909 groovebox.
Fair enough. I'm obviously not arguing with your preference/experience. But I hated those pads. Worst thing about the machine.

Though I think it's quite a relevant machine to bring up. I've always thought that Maschine is much more suited to being compared to the MC-909 than the MPC machines, despite being pretty much marketed as an MPC-killer.

And does anyone know about the Maschine sensors? Are they circular? Because that would be s ahame. I realise that you, hoffman2k, said that their response wasn't very good at the corners but then you also seemed to imply it about the PadKontrol, which do have square sensors and square pads (I think).

hoffman2k
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by hoffman2k » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:55 pm

Mister36 wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:The only pads that really worked well for me were the rectangular soft pads on the MC-909 groovebox.
Fair enough. I'm obviously not arguing with your preference/experience. But I hated those pads. Worst thing about the machine.

Though I think it's quite a relevant machine to bring up. I've always thought that Maschine is much more suited to being compared to the MC-909 than the MPC machines, despite being pretty much marketed as an MPC-killer.

And does anyone know about the Maschine sensors? Are they circular? Because that would be s ahame. I realise that you, hoffman2k, said that their response wasn't very good at the corners but then you also seemed to imply it about the PadKontrol, which do have square sensors and square pads (I think).
Right. I confused it with another one of those flat drum pads then. Its been a while. Forgot about the square sensors. If I recall correctly, my problem with the PK was the hardness of the pads. Tried a few of these. Maybe its the 4x4 layout that bugs me. How are the pads on those little Korg/Akai devices?

And the mc-909 didn't actually work nicely out of the box. I recall pads sticking under the metal.
But after a few years those edges wore off and it was more fun to play with.

humnumb
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by humnumb » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:27 pm

I've tried pretty much everything out there and the pads on Maschine are the most comfortable I've ever played with. Just the right amounts of firmness and sensitivity. Maschine's pads beats the MPC pads hands down in usability and feel.

Padkontrol's pads are slightly stiffer but comes pretty close to Maschine in terms of sensitivity, although it suffers from a cheap plastic build and doesn't feel as solid.

starving student
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by starving student » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:29 pm

i like this thread. I never understood folks wanting to get rid of their mpcs for maschine, In my mind maschine equates to being one of the greatest sound design tools right now, and definitely the best drumsampler going that you have to tow a computer around with.

the mpc on the other hand is the greatest stand alone instrument of it's kind (subjectively speaking of course)

it's incredible that ni implemented vst and at this point I wouldn't want to work on a computer without being able to use maschine and ableton, but there are some things that ni really has to knock out in the next update, maschines songmode is nil, the mute/soloing is not good enough, it needs more than 8 groups/kits it needs a minimum of 32 and imho that's just a starting place, it needs much simpler layering
it needs to be able to sequence at different tempos unless your music stays the same tempo the whole song,
and since it is a computer application it needs to have out of this world sample editing capabilities, there is no reason that software should be comparable to sample editing that can be done on extremely old hardware. it needs to be able to be used as a hardware audio editor by that I mean load up a sample or record a sample into maschine and then go to work editing the sample then just export that sample that you've mangled to a folder of your choice on your computer simple.............not yet it's not. I don't want to mangle a sample and have to create a pattern with it and then export that pattern. in this day and age I should need no such work arounds. also maschine needs to have 'freeze-pad-in-place' so that you can just get with the creating crazy mangled kits and then save them as they are in one fell swoop.

I got my maschine for $200 bucks brandspanken new out of craigslist so I cannot complain, neither maschine, ableton, or my mpc will be leaving my side in this lifetime. but obvioulsy ni still have some work to do.

Saxer
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by Saxer » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:45 pm

biggest + for maschine is the possibility of fast backups... and ni makes a good job until now! looking forward, what will happen next...

humnumb
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by humnumb » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:35 pm

starving student wrote:I never understood folks wanting to get rid of their mpcs for maschine
I never understood folks getting worked up about others getting rid of mpcs for maschine. Just because you like to collect gear, doesn't mean others should as well. Some people don't have the space for both or can't afford both. Some people are more productive with less redundant gear.
starving student wrote:maschines songmode is nil
By "songmode" you mean like in MPC where you string together sequences? Maschine has its own way doing things and you string together scenes of patterns without having to go to a different page to do so like on the MPC.
starving student wrote:the mute/soloing is not good enough
Much better than MPCs or APCs for being able to mute/solo by group and by sound instantly (crucial for live performance) from dedicated controls on the hardware.
starving student wrote:it needs more than 8 groups/kits it needs a minimum of 32 and imho that's just a starting place
No it doesn't. It's a totally different sequencer than a MPC. Don't let yourself be trapped by thinking it works in a way it doesn't.

In Maschine, each group consists of 16 sounds. That's 128 sounds in total. You can make up to 64 patterns with the 16 sounds of group A. You can make up to 64 patterns with the 16 sounds of group B. You can make up to 64 patterns with the 16 sounds of group C. Etc.A scene combines one of the 64 patterns from group A with one of the 64 patterns from group B with one of the 64 patterns from group C, etc. You can create up to 64 scenes. A scene can be a unique combination of patterns, but it can also be identical to another scene. A song is the arrangement of scenes.
starving student wrote:it needs much simpler layering
You can't get much simpler than the new Pad Link feature for layering. You can quickly change for each pad which pad group it's in and whether it is master or slave. Much quicker to experiment with layering than either the regular layering or simult pad in MPC.
starving student wrote:it needs to be able to sequence at different tempos unless your music stays the same tempo the whole song
Way to state the obvious.
starving student wrote:and since it is a computer application it needs to have out of this world sample editing capabilities, there is no reason that software should be comparable to sample editing that can be done on extremely old hardware.
Just because it is computer software doesn't mean it has to have a long bloated list of the biggest and latest features to do x, y, and z, hidden in layers of menus. You see, the beauty of Maschine is in the simplicity, ease of use, and the amazing hands-on workflow.
starving student wrote:it needs to be able to be used as a hardware audio editor by that I mean load up a sample or record a sample into maschine and then go to work editing the sample then just export that sample that you've mangled to a folder of your choice on your computer simple
It's not meant to be an "audio editor" but it can already do that.
starving student wrote:I don't want to mangle a sample and have to create a pattern with it and then export that pattern. in this day and age I should need no such work arounds.
How can you call something that does what it's supposed to do, a "work around" just because you want it to do what it wasn't made to do?
starving student wrote:also maschine needs to have 'freeze-pad-in-place' so that you can just get with the creating crazy mangled kits and then save them as they are in one fell swoop.
It does have freeze which it does in its own way. You can just drag and drop everything internally to any pad as audio which frees you up to turn off the plugin you were using if you want.

starving student
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by starving student » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:13 pm

humnumb i can see you mean well, but you're so busy defending maschine from someone (me)who describes maschine as one of three tools I plan on keeping along with my mpc and live.

I want to ask you something,and then I want to tell you a few things.
first off, in your post you told me repeatedly that the way I want to use maschine is not the way it's supposed to be used, in effect that my feature request are not appropriate. I'm just curious, who are you and what is it about the fact that I use maschine differently than you that makes you think you are right and I am wrong?

why do you think you need to view more than one page for sequencing on the mpc, I know you're familiar with simply highlighting the sequence line and scrolling up or down, is that what you are calling a different page.....thats not a fair comparison.

why are you telling me I don't need more than 8 groups, use each of my groups as kits for drums and instruments and 8 are absolutely not enough, I do allot of micro sampling, wall of sound sampling, and allot of sample mangling and editing. I need each kit to be self contained along with each pads fx capabilities in tact, I would prefer 99 kits to 8 kits of 128 samples, I don't make random sample based music, the slicing and arrangement of kits/placement of samples is crucial for my songwriting workflow as well as live performance style.

why are you telling me the muting is perfect and I don't need any improvements, as a matter of fact I need to be able to sequence my mutes,

starving student
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by starving student » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:24 pm

continued....


the mute system on the mpc is fantastic and maschine could learn allot from it just like it learned how to run vsts from other daws. I use the mute system as a way to introduce very intricate dynamics into my songs again not only for production but for live performance, in effect it's very similar to how the 64 patterns are switched out on maschine, I use mutes in the same fasshion, to create dynamics, tension, release, special efx, drops, lulls and in combination with the mpcs ability to have your song not be the same tempo the whole damn song the mutes and recording of mutes are used to great effect. actually in a live situation the mpc is more like ableton that maschine is, because on the mpc you can emulate the ability that ableton gives you by renaming scenes with different tempos......maschine has not gotten there yet, but I'm sure it will unless folks like you stop ni from developing it further for god knows what reason.

I didn't say anything about people not having the space or being able to afford both maschine and other gear, why would I?, that has nothing to do with feature request and hopes, there's nothing redundant about how I use maschine ableton or the mpc and let me point this much further out to you. If you had an mpc and through it away on day one that maschine came out, that's fine to each his own, but it's clear that in your music you obviously don't need to do anything that I've described in my way of making music. nothing wrong with that I don't even know what kind of music you make maybe you don't need to go from 120bpm down to 117 and then to 67 and back up to 80 but who really gives a fuck I just make simple hiphop anyway, and maybe you don't need more sample editing features

starving student
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by starving student » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:35 pm

continued.....

but I need more sample editing features. and i would rather have maschine freeze samples right in place on the pads they're getting mangled on, just like every daw freezes tracks right in place on the specified track, why would I not want a hardware software drumsampler to not do so, it would greatly speed up the workflow and greatly help with the sound design of kits. I mean at every turn you're telling me either maschine doesn't need something or the way I compose isn't propper,it sounds like you have a bone to pick with innovation but if that's the case then why would you even be a maschine user in the first place, ....oxy-mo ....no?

I want maschine to be able to crossfade between groups, I use crossfading constantly in live and if maschine did it I think it would be great, maybe you don't use crossfading either whatever it's cool but dayaaaam!

I like the way maschine does patterns and scenes but I'd like to be able to sequence those patterns and scenes and also swing them in pos/neg values....why oh why is that not a resonable request, that songmode is shit.

and what do you mean you can already use it as an editor, can you layer up a bunch of samples on a single pad and effect that pad and then simply export that pad? if so that's great!


and the way you said way to state the obvious about maschines tempo issues made it sound like it was so obvious that ni just thought they didn't need it :roll:

starving student
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by starving student » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:48 pm

a simple song like this would be difficult to make on maschine, I'd need my mpc just for this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foEU2WHdOzA

Khazul
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by Khazul » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:55 pm

Mister36 wrote:Fair enough. I'm obviously not arguing with your preference/experience. But I hated those pads. Worst thing about the machine.
TBH - I have to agree about the pads on my MPC2500 - never really liked playing them much even with the sensitivity set to max. Kind of feel I want to play them with hammers or Ahead rock sticks (for the non-drummers - they are heavy metal construction drum sticks for beating the crap out of your drum kit).

Ends of fingers allways felt battered and bruised after a long session on the thing.

Yes - the contruction of them is good from a durability perspective, but hey concrete paving slabs are probably more durable than skins on a drum - doesnt mean its a good idea (well except for some drummers) :)
Nothing to see here - move along!

Khazul
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by Khazul » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:58 pm

starving student wrote:a simple song like this would be difficult to make on maschine, I'd need my mpc just for this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foEU2WHdOzA
Allways a good thing - maschine gets my vote in that case ;)
Nothing to see here - move along!

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