Ableton Forum

Hello,
Here is a little patch made to color my clips the way i want : red, orange, green, yellow, red, orange, green, yellow, etc...
It's working good, although it could be much lighter with the use of some uzis for the clips. Anyway, my problem is i want to refresh the colors from times to times, because i record clips live and i want them to adjust their colors.
My idea was to refresh when i select a new track. (any better idea ?). And that's the right part of the clip : link the output of the "change" to the upper left bang. And then i got this message in the max window : "changes cannot be triggered by notifications", which i logically understand. Any help ? i got this problem in several patches so i think there is something logical i didn't figure out.

Thanks

Louis

<pre><code>
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

I've worked around the whole "changes cannot be triggered by notifications" two ways. You could use a metro object that periodically sends out a bang to pass through the data collected by live.observer, or you could use a midi note on a live clip that goes into max. Thanks for sharing, didn't realize you could change the colors like this! -Adam.

Nico Starke from ableton came across this thread and sent me a corrected version of the patch.
I don't know how people can still claim that ableton support sucks. Anyway, the "deferlow" object can be used to solve these kind of problems. Here is the patch :

<pre><code>
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

I used to have the same kind of problem.
"deferlow" is definitely the first thing to try out when you have weird timing behavior and/or when you get the "changes cannot be triggered by notification" warning.

Yeah, that's definitely good to know.

I'm gonna search to see what deferlow does!

Cheers
D

i don't understand how anyone can programme anything at all in max for live withOUT deferlow. any big device of mine has masses of them. in max alone you only need it sometimes, in m4l you need it ten times more. knowing your deferlow (putting the request to the end of the queue) will make for much happier m4l patching...

So whilst i've read the documentation and a number of posts i don't understand how it can do anything more than using delays to ensure messages arrive on time, am i to believe then that even though a message is delivered that it's not actually processed until sometime after whereby i might have sent another set of contradicting messages that should have happened after?

It would certainly clear up a number of issues that i've worked around for a long time!

Cheers
D

pid wrote:i don't understand how anyone can programme anything at all in max for live withOUT deferlow. any big device of mine has masses of them. in max alone you only need it sometimes, in m4l you need it ten times more. knowing your deferlow (putting the request to the end of the queue) will make for much happier m4l patching...

+ 1000

S4racen wrote:I'm gonna search to see what deferlow does!

deferlow takes the input messages to the back of the low priority execution queue, which mean that after a deferlow object, the signal is treated as low-priority, which has differents effects :

• Depending on your CPU usage, it can add some delay to the following treatments, which are done after all the other are completed
• Since the computer "takes his time" to treat the messages, the message scheduling is always respected after a deferlow object, e.g. "right to left" ordering at the output of a trigger is guaranted, which is NOT the case if the message is treated in the High priority queue (I discovered that to my depends...)
• Notifications from the live API (through Live.observer for example) are treated as High priority messages, and such messages can't trigger changes to the live API, because that would allow infinite loops (If the notification message triggers a change to a live parameter, which triggers a notification, which triggers a change etc... This would freeze the computer, That's why this is returning the famous "changes cannot be triggered by notifications" warning). Switching these messages to the low priority queue allows to use them to trigger changes through the live API, the changes are then slightly (or not) delayed, making an infinite feedback loop impossible.

I am quite confident about my explanations, but not sure at 100%, since it relies on my experience. Correct me if I am wrong.

S4racen, did you really NOT use deferlow in your patches ???
I can't believe that such complexes (I think) patches can work without deferlow, that would be incredible !?!

yes i have a suspicion that S4racen might be a genius. i dunno how you do isotonik without deferlow. what this means is, you must be completely awesome at 'working around' issues and logical thinking. maybe if you spent a week reading a complete list of max/msp/jitter objects and their descriptions you'd be taking over the world?!... seriously, it may sound like i am being a wanker, but i am actually saying "respect to you, and your project".

pid wrote:i don't understand how anyone can programme anything at all in max for live withOUT deferlow. any big device of mine has masses of them. in max alone you only need it sometimes, in m4l you need it ten times more. knowing your deferlow (putting the request to the end of the queue) will make for much happier m4l patching...

+1
I just came into M4L patching using the API and this became a critical issue within hours.
I still can't really understand what it is really doing, but i know how and when to use it.

Lol, Peter you're right on the live.observer, if i do use it to update something like a knob lighting then i place an updatevalue in front of the message going to the live.dial, so whilst it'll update the live.dial that it's mapped to, it won't output a message to then be read by the live.observer etc...

Crubier, with yours and Hoffman2k's explanation of deferlow i truly now "get" it, the main benefit to me has been for lighting issues i was having in that i was having to send repeated bangs to the apc40 based on running through multiple delays to get a consistent result. Obvioulsy this is then finely tuned to the performance of the computer running the device and some people experienced different results to my three set ups i have to test on.... Thankfully i've had a really good bunch of people test my latest device on all sorts of different setups which have all now benefitted from liberal uses of deferlows!

And as for genius, not sure, probably not, just like solving challenges and the logic of M4L really appeals.... I'm thinking of doing a max course now i've finished isotonik to look at the msp and audio side as i'm sure i'm missing a load of tricks i could be using, i've really just focused on the live.api so far and that's got me a long way....

Cheers
D