Ableton Forum

Its is possible to work with other intervals in Live, outside the equal tempered? For example Just Intonation?
I find Ableton Live very nice, stable, whit a good design, good instruments and effects, but for experimental music these things are a must.
Maybe theres a workaround and I cant see it. I will be amazed if I can use some Just Intonation tunning in Sampler or Operator.

By the way, this is my first post, but I use Ableton (not alll the time) from a couple of years ago.

cheers

You can create a set of ams files that have the correct hertz values for the tuning you want and load that set into sampler.

Equal tempared? I find it goes out the window after a few hours of live crashing... There should be an 'irate' scale for Live users.

I have used fixed tuned Operators in a Drumrack.

There is no straightforward or simple way to globally work with different temperaments using Live Suite's instruments; nor is there a way to globally change A440 to something else. There are various workarounds in Operator and Sampler that one can apply, by manipulating individual waveforms directly; yet they are time consuming, impractical and imprecise.

The solution that I decided upon was to invest in Li'l Miss' Scale Oven, as it can tune Live Suite's instruments, along with just about any hardware or software. Unfortunately it is for Mac OS X only; however if you have a Mac, LMSO is an excellent, deep and precise tuning application, well worth the investment in finances and time. One of those tools worth getting a Mac for.

http://www.nonoctave.com/tuning/LilMissScaleOven/

Hi, thanks for the answers.
I dont have a mac.
I need to have a look to ams files (I dont know what they are), I can make my own tuning system with ams and Sampler???
I will wait for other suggestions. A software like Li'l Miss' Scale Oven seems like a great solution, I will search something similar for Windows.

I find tobybear Microtuner, its a "hack" to achieve microtuning with pitchbend, do you have experience with it or think this method is accurate?:

MicroTuner is yet another revolutionary
plugin: It adds microtuning capabilities to
every VSTi and external synthesizer module,
as long as the target synth supports
receiving pitchbend on all MIDI channels.
I am not talking about changing a note
some cents up or down in pitch, no, you can
completely redefine the whole tuning scale,
allowing you to set an arbitrary frequency
separately for each MIDI note!
And it gets even better, it already has a
loader built in (with drag and drop GUI)
that can load the widely used Scala, VAZ
and Anamark tuning files directly!

Microtuner sounds pretty awesome... Additionally there are several syths that accect .tun (Scala) files as well. FM8 and Absynth come to mind off the top of my head.

Albino, Omnisphere, Zebra, Alchemy..

Can someone explane how to do it with Zebra?
With Alchemy its easy: and you can lock the tuning so that it stays when you change presets.

http://www.ageofthewheel.com/2010/11/am ... -live.html

in case you decide to go the ams route, this tool will export a series of ams files that you can drag onto sampler and they should auto-map. unfortunately i lost the source code i had planned on adding more built-in tuning systems like log and exp^2, exp^3, etc...

Capitan Mission wrote:I find tobybear Microtuner, its a "hack" to achieve microtuning with pitchbend, do you have experience with it or think this method is accurate?

Yes, I actually do have experience with Tonybear's effects from years ago running Sonar on Windows, and they are excellent. Tonybear's "bags" were a part of a handful of software tools that I genuinely missed when migrating to OS X, especially Microtuner and Arpimedes. http://www.tobybear.de/products.html

As far as microtuning with pitchbend, that can be very accurate, more so than with using Cents. LMSO offers a mode similar to Microtuner's pitchbend "hack" for hardware and software instruments which will not accept any form of micro-tuning. If you are concerned about the accuracy of Microtuner's results, apply it to a sine wave in Operator and then run it through the Spectrum effect, or an accurate tuner plugin which can verify the frequency output.

Good find.

Akshara wrote:

Capitan Mission wrote:I find tobybear Microtuner, its a "hack" to achieve microtuning with pitchbend, do you have experience with it or think this method is accurate?

Yes, I actually do have experience with Tonybear's effects from years ago running Sonar on Windows, and they are excellent. Tonybear's "bags" were a part of a handful of software tools that I genuinely missed when migrating to OS X, especially Microtuner and Arpimedes. http://www.tobybear.de/products.html

As far as microtuning with pitchbend, that can be very accurate, more so than with using Cents. LMSO offers a mode similar to Microtuner's pitchbend "hack" for hardware and software instruments which will not accept any form of micro-tuning. If you are concerned about the accuracy of Microtuner's results, apply it to a sine wave in Operator and then run it through the Spectrum effect, or an accurate tuner plugin which can verify the frequency output.

Good find.

Hi, I was doing that! Mental!
I put a very simple sine in Operator and test it with a tuner. But I find errors. In scala I can see the base frequency (normally C4) and each frequency of the scale. The first one was right, 261.6, but the others are different (some right or very close, others not). Then, I tested it with Analog, the results were different.
So I thought that the instruments are not neutral, and they change the freq a little. But maybe is a problem with microtuner.
I will do more test with others DAWs, I want to use other tunings!

Did you try it on any vst synths in Live?

Microtuning ist yet not a tool for live-instruments you can use for that some scales http://abletonlife.com/midi-effect-tuto ... tons-scale - just search for
the scale-folder to change them - you will not be able play on your keyboard "old mcdonald had a farm" on a hungarian-gypsy neither on a arabian scale.

A good start for microtuning is SCALA http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/.
If you have createt your own .TUN files you can use them in .TUN able synths
like most Rob Papens, or you create .SCL files and use it in Sample-VST`s like
Ethno.

Three Plugs i know can do it also - in live it schould be also possible with pitchbend

Diatonic Shifter :

Melodyne :

Autotune :



If you interested in scales maybe this could be intresting for you http://dubsahara.com/maqam/midi -- its about half & quartertone scales. check out the hijaz under makam

a .scl-file look like this
Napolitan scale, class-1 differential coherence ; whole tone scale by omitting C
12
!
17/16
205/192
455/384
19/16
4/3
171/128
3/2
3/2
5/3
15/8
241/128
2/1

a .tun-file like this:
; AnaMark / VAZ 1.5 Plus tuning map file
; File converted by "ScalaConverter",
; 5 out of 19-tET
;
; 1. VAZ-section with quantized tunings
[Tuning]
note 0=0
note 1=253
note 2=505
note 3=758
note 4=1011
note 5=1200
note 6=1453
note 7=1705
note 8=1958
note 9=2211
note 10=2400
note 11=2653
note 12=2905
note 13=3158
note 14=3411
note 15=3600
note 16=3853
note 17=4105
note 18=4358
note 19=4611
note 20=4800
note 21=5053
note 22=5305
note 23=5558
note 24=5811
note 25=6000
note 26=6253
note 27=6505
note 28=6758
note 29=7011
note 30=7200
note 31=7453
note 32=7705
note 33=7958
note 34=8211
note 35=8400
note 36=8653
note 37=8905
note 38=9158
note 39=9411
note 40=9600
note 41=9853
note 42=10105
note 43=10358
note 44=10611
note 45=10800
note 46=11053
note 47=11305
note 48=11558
note 49=11811
note 50=12000
note 51=12253
note 52=12505
note 53=12758
note 54=13011
note 55=13200
note 56=13453
note 57=13705
note 58=13958
note 59=14211
note 60=14400
note 61=14653
note 62=14905
note 63=15158
note 64=15411
note 65=15600
note 66=15853
note 67=16105
note 68=16358
note 69=16611
note 70=16800
note 71=17053
note 72=17305
note 73=17558
note 74=17811
note 75=18000
note 76=18253
note 77=18505
note 78=18758
note 79=19011
note 80=19200
note 81=19453
note 82=19705
note 83=19958
note 84=20211
note 85=20400
note 86=20653
note 87=20905
note 88=21158
note 89=21411
note 90=21600
note 91=21853
note 92=22105
note 93=22358
note 94=22611
note 95=22800
note 96=23053
note 97=23305
note 98=23558
note 99=23811
note 100=24000
note 101=24253
note 102=24505
note 103=24758
note 104=25011
note 105=25200
note 106=25453
note 107=25705
note 108=25958
note 109=26211
note 110=26400
note 111=26653
note 112=26905
note 113=27158
note 114=27411
note 115=27600
note 116=27853
note 117=28105
note 118=28358
note 119=28611
note 120=28800
note 121=29053
note 122=29305
note 123=29558
note 124=29811
note 125=30000
note 126=30253
note 127=30505

ze2be: yes, I tested it with vsts (Native´s FM8)
Tagor: Im working with Scala. And there are programs to send midi data to live instruments (or another instruments) that doesn't support scala or microtuning themselves. In Mac a wonderful program exists, but I dont have a Mac and Im searching a windows alternative. I found one, as I say before, but I have some problems.