Ableton Forum

I realize this may be a dumb question, I'm really just taking a shot in the dark here to see if anyone has any advice.

I'm using Ableton 8 suite and the Vanguard vst by refx, and I'm trying to create some sort of saw wave based sound that mimics those synths used in a lot of late 90s early 00s Euro dance/pop. Something like the sound used on songs by Alice DeeJay and Vengaboys for easy examples. Basically I'm trying to give it that soft whine (I guess that's how I'd describe it). I get close through tweaking, but it still sounds too dirty. Then when I try and clean it up it loses the whine I'm looking for.

I have a basic understanding of all the dials just through trial and error, and I'm hoping that maybe someone could put into words how to effect this kind of thing. If I'm being to vague in my description please let me know.

This is an example of the sound I'm trying to recreate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llyiQ4I-mcQ

rocking the Trailer Park? don't let Lahey catch you.

sounds like saw waves with a quick attack and short release. Pure Magnetik and some other outfits sell synth packs geared towards Live that are made to sound like certain genres.

http://www.puremagnetik.com/

(tip - try to pick youtubes without ads, people are more likely to actually listen. I listened because I dig your handle.)

hth

I'm producing J-Rocs next album actually haha

Thanks for the response, I'm going to try messing with the attack/release. I'll check out the site, I'm just not trying another synth at the moment. From all I read about the Vanguard synth it seemed like the best one for the sound I was going for so I'm hoping I can tweak it to get the sound I want.

Duly noted on the videos.

You can probably get away with using Ableton Operator too. You probably don't need to use any VSTs. (not that there's anything wrong with wanting to use Vanguard)

I didn't think about your username until Tone Deft mentioned it. How un-Maritimer of me

corey trevor wrote:I'm producing J-Rocs next album actually haha

Thanks for the response, I'm going to try messing with the attack/release. I'll check out the site, I'm just not trying another synth at the moment. From all I read about the Vanguard synth it seemed like the best one for the sound I was going for so I'm hoping I can tweak it to get the sound I want.

Duly noted on the videos.

i think what you need for that undirty whine is a subtle detune of 2 saw oscillators. and it seems vanguard is not capable to do that basic thing (which is crazy i think). i'd try ableton's "analog"... yes, just two saw oscillators with detune + short envelope.

ErnstEiswürfel wrote:i think what you need for that undirty whine is a subtle detune of 2 saw oscillators. and it seems vanguard is not capable to do that basic thing (which is crazy i think). i'd try ableton's "analog"... yes, just two saw oscillators with detune + short envelope.

Are you sure Vanguard can't detune? Its got 'semi' dials on the oscilators that can take it down octaves (my terminology may be wrong, but if I tune them all to say, -12, it has the same effect of simply dropping all the midi notes down from, ex. D2 -> D1). Its also got detuning knobs on each of the LFOs and a detuning knob on the envelope. I'll give the ableton analog a whirl though, (haven't really played with it since I got the vanguard and I feel I know a bit more about how the synth works now.) see what
happens.

corey trevor wrote:

ErnstEiswürfel wrote:i think what you need for that undirty whine is a subtle detune of 2 saw oscillators. and it seems vanguard is not capable to do that basic thing (which is crazy i think). i'd try ableton's "analog"... yes, just two saw oscillators with detune + short envelope.

Are you sure Vanguard can't detune? Its got 'semi' dials on the oscilators that can take it down octaves (my terminology may be wrong, but if I tune them all to say, -12, it has the same effect of simply dropping all the midi notes down from, ex. D2 -> D1). Its also got detuning knobs on each of the LFOs and a detuning knob on the envelope.

i'm almost sure. "semi" just does half notes, while i think u need a much finer detune.
and i'm not sure what the LFO & ENV detunes are supposed to do, but most likely they're not gonna detune the oscillators.
yeah, give it a try with analog! actually i'm repeatedly amazed by its sound quality & fatness it can provide. i'm using it alot for subtractive synth stuff even though i have alternatives. and i like the easy & streamlined interface too..

This thread has got me interested. Can you post an example of exactly the synth and the part of a sog you mean. The Youtube video you linked to has a bunch of different sounds in it.

Do you mean this sound?
http://www.synthmania.com/Korg%20microK ... 0Chord.mp3

dentaku wrote:This thread has got me interested. Can you post an example of exactly the synth and the part of a sog you mean. The Youtube video you linked to has a bunch of different sounds in it.

Do you mean this sound?
http://www.synthmania.com/Korg%20microK ... 0Chord.mp3

Sorry, unexpectedly been without the internet the past couple days...

Thats basically the sound I'm looking for, hoping to recreate it without a korg.

I've been messing with the ableton analog, I'm definitely liking the sounds coming out of it. I think I might be able to get close with it, I just need to spend more time learning it. Any tips and tricks for it are greatly appreciated!

For the big cheezy VengaBus horn sound...
Operator has a preset named "Lead-Thick Detune Saw". You can start there and modify it to your liking. It's four slightly detuned SAW waves with a bit of attack so messing with the four knobs that say FINE will give you more or less detuning and makes for a bunch of different sounds.
Turn the VOICES setting up because 1 isn't enough, then stick a CHORD midi plug-in before the Operator and set the first SHIFT to -16, the second one to -12 and the third one to -4. This way you only need to press jhjhjd___d___ on your computer keyboard and you have an instant Vengabus (or maybe it's uyuyue...e..., I'm not sure what key the original song is in)
Adding a bit of reverb after it helps.
Turning the Coarse up to 2 on Operator D (the top one) will add allot to it too. You can mess with this stuff forever.

corey trevor wrote:

dentaku wrote:This thread has got me interested. Can you post an example of exactly the synth and the part of a sog you mean. The Youtube video you linked to has a bunch of different sounds in it.

Do you mean this sound?
http://www.synthmania.com/Korg%20microK ... 0Chord.mp3

Sorry, unexpectedly been without the internet the past couple days...

Thats basically the sound I'm looking for, hoping to recreate it without a korg.

I've been messing with the ableton analog, I'm definitely liking the sounds coming out of it. I think I might be able to get close with it, I just need to spend more time learning it. Any tips and tricks for it are greatly appreciated!