Ableton Forum

On most controllers, the knobs are spaced about 2.5cm/1" apart. Counting from the middle of the encoder.
My personal experience has always been that I have to adjust my grip when I control 2 adjacent knobs, for several reasons.
Thumbs could collide, halting a smooth sweep. You could accidentally touch a 3rd encoder because you adjusted your grip. And push encoders sometimes get accidentally pressed down by colliding thumbs or adjusted grips.

I don't even have big hands or freakish thumbs. I imagine people with bigger hands might even have these problems when knobs aren't adjacent.

After experimenting a bit with a DIY project and comparing some controllers, 2.5cm is really about the minimum you can get away with. There are a few controllers that have the knobs closer and I'm not finding any examples of where they are further apart.

The most obvious reason for this average would be that it looks compact, but you definitely won't be able to convince me its ergonomic.
Its probably not a new question. And the spacing may be just a remnant of controllers copying mixers.
But I am curious if this is a common unspoken problem or if I just suck at using controllers. There may be something to the latter figuring I've already busted 3 BCR's and the 4th is well on its way out.
But still, would it be madness to have knobs 4cm apart?
Sure, a 2 x 8 controller would be about 13" wide, but would it feel better to use?

"the fingers you have used to dial are too fat"

Most of the controllers I've used have had that problem. I guess it's just something to get used to but it would be great if there was a "roomier" controller out there.

I've played around with my friend's Korg MicroKontrol before and I noticed that the knobs seems to be spaced out a little better.

This is one of the reasons that faders are so much cooler

This is actually a huge annoyance. Ergonomics is everything for a human interface, imo. Its what sets them a part, as toyish or pro.
A few exceptions that are good: Akai apc 40, Access Virus Ti, and not a controller but: Pioneer DJ 300/800 mixers. All these devices have about the same size knobs with the same space between. And they are perfectly tight, not to hard not to soft.

Most controllers feels like those mini travel mouse you get: terrible grip, bad precision. But they are cheep, small, and good for travel.

I wish Akai would release just the device control section of the APC 40, so we could use it when traveling: place it on top of the laptop, left or right side of the track pad. That would be extremely helpful!

Screw the korg nanokontrols.

edit: typos

Well, I have very small hands, so... no.

ze2be wrote: I wish Akai would release just the device control section of the APC 40, so we could use it when traveling: place it on top of the laptop, left or right side of the track pad. That would be extremely helpful!

Yes indeed.

I feel that manufacturers should focus on two things:

1) leave enough room between the controls. Take a look at a DJ mixer aimed towards scratch DJ's - plenty of room between everything!
2) not all knob pots are created equal. I find the 7-sided ones, like those used by Moog, to be the most precise for "musical" knob twiddlery (ie. when you want to use the knob for "chromatic" playing and not just doing simple sweeps through the whole range of the knob)

And yes, most controllers, especially the cheaper ones, F41L terribly on these points.

Yeah it's the same with those pesky guitar strings. I'd be playing some sweet jams if they weren't so bunched together I keep hitting the wrong string. Don't even get me started on the keyboard, that thing has keys to the left, right AND above where I play.

Perhaps we need this approach:

jestermgee wrote:Yeah it's the same with those pesky guitar strings. I'd be playing some sweet jams if they weren't so bunched together I keep hitting the wrong string. Don't even get me started on the keyboard, that thing has keys to the left, right AND above where I play.

Fail.
Try to place the guitar strings with half the space between each other then normal, or try o e of those micro keyboards, and then tell us its no different. And if thats ok, you must be a pygmee or something.

I have small hands, so it's not a problem for me. The biggest gripe I have with a lot of controllers is that the knobs seem so fragile that you're afraid you'll break them off. This is a problem with my BCR/F and even more so with my Nocturn (brilliant idea, piss poor execution). I really love the sturdy feel of the knobs on my Traktor X1 (I've mentioned it before: I wish NI would make a Nocturn killer, with the X1's knobs, only endless).

sporkles wrote:the knobs seem so fragile

That's what she said.

Thanks for the votes and the replies, even the not so serious ones.
The only real way to settle this question for myself will just be to build it.

I agree about the build quality of controllers like the BCR. The encoders just break too easily.
And the firmware kinda sucks too.
Technology has finally caught up to make it easy to cure those problems.
Open Source hardware is class compliant, 3D modeling can be done by a 4-year old in software like Sketchup and you can buy like 50 different kinds of encoders in varying qualities.
Sparkfun even sell encoder ring boards and ALPS (best encoders) released an encoder with the ring attached...

I just don't get why all these companies with all their resources do nothing to innovate MIDI Controllers.
AKAI could have made a controller with just encoders. Novation could improve the nocturn. Behringer could rip all of them off. What happened to Doepfer? Only Livid, Faderfox, Korg and Ruin&Wesen seem to keep improving controllers.
As for the rest, they probably drowned in 25-key keyboards...

Ah well. Off to find a CNC wizard..

Cheers,

- Bjorn

My personal experience has always been that I have to adjust my grip when I control 2 adjacent knobs, for several reasons. Thumbs could collide, halting a smooth sweep.

I use a Remote 37SL and I usually remove adjacent knob covers (and keep them in a safe place) when I need to have plenty of space for frequently tweaked parameters (e.g. filter cutoff and res). My thumbs are always hitting neighboring knobs while attempting to rotate encoders a full range. Ghetto, I know, but problem solved. And I don't understand why Novation couldn't spread the knobs apart jesssst a half a cm more for ea. Plenty of real estate on either side of this particular model to spread things out a bit.

Good luck on your quest, Bjorn