Ableton Forum

I am layering the kicks finding a low, mid and high then applying compression but they just never sound like ones that you hear in songs. Same goes for the snares they never seem have much of a crunch to them and that would be with snares and claps layered together too.

Is it just a case of trail and error with my samples or is there more processing to be applied?

where are you getting your samples from?
are they 16bit...24bit?

Not sure about the bit but they are Vengeance packs plus just got the Deadmau5 Xfer pack.

Hi there,

I have been producing for a few years now and have learned that in dance music, unless you are after a particular sound,the kicks we use rarely need to be layered.
Especially so if you are using sample pack kicks as sample pack kicks are treated so that they can be used exactly as they are.
I think you are looking into it way too deep and should just pick out a kick you like the sound of and use it.
Layering is used sometimes to beef up a woody kick with no bottom end though Vegence kicks are made for dance music so beefing up is not necessary.

Through experience, I eventually learned that it was the rest of my mix in general that needed attention to make the kick stand out and not the kick itself.

If you are still determined to layer your kicks, then try this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs94kiOlR3c

Haha I never actually thought about using just one decent kick I have been just trying to layer everything, but I guess if its a good sample and it sounds good then it's gonna work

Also on another note I have seen tutorials where they EQ all the bottom end out of the kick.
Am I missing something here do I not want the kick to have a good bottom end?

If your bass is really low and subby like 30-60hz and hits at the same time as the kick then equing out the lower end of the kick may be necessary to stop them clashing.

When I began producung, I was always the same thinking kicks had to be big and boomy though after a while I realised they can also be more 'thwack thwack' if it's a 'boom boom' bass line.

Listen to some tracks you like and you will find that the kicks sound higher especially drum and bass.

I don't think it's wise to completly high pass out all the kick's lower frequencies but maybe place the high pass around 50-60hz with a gentle 12db slope IF the bass line is really deep and rumbling.
It's all about using your ears to get the right balance.

Ill Frequencies wrote:Also on another note I have seen tutorials where they EQ all the bottom end out of the kick.
Am I missing something here do I not want the kick to have a good bottom end?

Again, this will depend on the rest of the song - most notably the bassline. The lower end of a kick and a low bassline occupy the same sonic territory, so people will treat one or the other depending on what is most important to the track. If you have a huge dominant sub-bass, it might be worth chopping the lows out of your kicks so that it has more space. On the other hand, if the main aspects of the bassline are actually in the lower mid-ranges (like a lot of saw-synth "bass" sounds) it might be worth EQing the bass and letting the kick have that space way down low.

Of course, there is always the good ol' technique of side-chaining the bass so the volume ducks every time the kick hits, again it will depend what you're trying to achieve in the song whether this is going to be suitable.

experiment and practice practice practice !!!!

layer your kicks but you dont need to eq and make it complicated. Let the compressor and the limiter do the job for you.
Also, filter all the other tracks so your kick and bass got space
and also make your kicks louder than the rest.

samples first, programming and processing second.

Ill Frequencies wrote:I am layering the kicks finding a low, mid and high then applying compression but they just never sound like ones that you hear in songs. Same goes for the snares they never seem have much of a crunch to them and that would be with snares and claps layered together too.

Is it just a case of trail and error with my samples or is there more processing to be applied?

Too many layers will more than likely weaken the sound as the frequencies phase each other out...you can always lift a kick straight from your favourite track; use it directly in your own mix or have a good look at it under the microscope... Stick it through a spectrum analyser and see where the peaks are then use that as a bench mark for your own Kicks...

Don't get hung up on more is better; if a sample has been well recorded then 1 kick is often all you need...

Also don't be scared to Hi Pass everything, the only exception is your Bass and Kick, keep your Low end as clean as possible...

Perhaps you already know this, but the default settings in impulse can change how your samples sound when you drag them in. The Decay is set to like 0.5ms (or something like this) and the volume is reduced. I remember this had me scratching my head years back when I would load in samples and they were more quiet and didn't sound as loud after dragging them in.

I'm no expert so take this with a grain of salt.

I often highpass the kick right up to it's fundamental frequency, which I boost a bit, and then cut the main womp above the fundamental a bit to exaggerate the broader cut I've made above that where the bass synth's fundamental is. This drastically changes the sound of the kick, but it's designed to highlight tuning and prevent frequency masking w/ the bass. Then I use a limiter.

As was said, eq'ing the bass and whatever other tracks you think might leave room for the kick's fundamental is important. Even subtle side chaining helps, as well as how you program the bass & sub bass melody around the kick. It always amazes me how massive yet defined people are able to get the low end while still having it controlled and leaving room for the kick. It's phenomenal what people can do.

Just tried a new thing I read about where you carefully truncate the sample to only what's needed, duplicate the sample and truncate just the attack portion of the kick, limit that as well as blend the two. Not sure how necessary it is but I definitely like the truncating samples part, and even want to get a sound wave editor to draw a volume envelope on my kick waveforms to get a steeper slope so I don't have eq the womp as much.

For the snare/clap, in addition to eq and other processing etc. try placing one slightly ahead of the other, to get a "th-r-ah" sound going.

If this is Ill Gates, I really enjoyed your presentation in Lincoln, NE last year.