Ableton Forum

Ableton is Great...

I regret saying ableton was the most hated daw...
i was just feeling like a hater...

sorry to the abes.. keep it up.

it's just because in the other companies forums they ban you sooner...

@TK - I guess given that a 70s amiga had no midi, no audio, not even a cpu or memory - in fact it didnt exist at all - then evidently - it aint *that* bad - it exist at least (whether existance is a good or bad thing is a different question).

Re LFOs - insert obligatory get M4L and spent the rest of you life learning to program it if you want LFOs, or just download some and spend the next few months understanding and debugging them

At least you in the righ town to have a winge - should look up 3phase too - have a good winge over a few beers


@9V - yes very very true - Schutzstaffelberg (AKA steiunberg) put a lot of effort into their forum reputation, though still think RME are by far the worst when it comes to even questioning their choices, never mind actually commiting the ultimate sacrilege by disagreeing with them

@Tweaking Knobs.....I don't hate Ableton, neither do I disagree that they ignore their users. Infact, they probably put too much effort into trying to code feature requests, which could be why Live 8 had a bad start.

Jarvisimon wrote:Infact, they probably put too much effort into trying to code feature requests, which could be why Live 8 had a bad start.

Nah.
LIVE 8's start being the f.u.b.a.r that it was followed by the glacial bug fixing is probably down to Claes Johanson, Pablo Sara, Nicholas Allen & Volker Schumacher departing the dev team (mid-LIVE 8 development or sooner) to work on their own software, for their own company.
Bitwig.com



Or maybe that's just a coincidence. A rather big one.

Press Enter wrote: LIVE 8's start being the f.u.b.a.r that it was followed by the glacial bug fixing is probably down to Claes Johanson, Pablo Sara, Nicholas Allen & Volker Schumacher departing the dev team (mid-LIVE 8 development or sooner) to work on their own software, for their own company.
Bitwig.com
Or maybe that's just a coincidence. A rather big one.

I remember making a similar post myself some time ago. It could well be but any programmer leaving a company would leave a large gap to fill, especially if they're half way through a very complicated build comprising of hundreds of feature requests. I doubt anyone could fill the shoes just like that, no matter how capable.

Anyway, I just wanted to answer the OP's point saying that Abe's users hate Live. I think they're great listeners and I love the tools they've supplied us with. Live 9 is going to kick ass!

Jarvisimon wrote:It could well be but any programmer leaving a company would leave a large gap to fill, especially if they're half way through a very complicated build comprising of hundreds of feature requests.

Any programmer ? Eh, maybe. It's in the realms of possibility anyway. But I don't think these guys fall into the 'any' category in this case. They lost real talent here, who didn't just go on to work for another salary for another company. They lost the type of talent that went on to develop their own performance daw. Besides the fact these particular programmer(s) were also at the helm of Vember Audio (Surge/Shortcircuit). And I'm doubtful they even had a hand in Live 8 at all. If they did, they couldn't have had much of a hand.

But I'll concede. It could just be a coincidence.

Press Enter wrote:

Jarvisimon wrote:It could well be but any programmer leaving a company would leave a large gap to fill, especially if they're half way through a very complicated build comprising of hundreds of feature requests.

Any programmer ? Eh, maybe. It's in the realms of possibility anyway. But I don't think these guys fall into the 'any' category in this case. They lost real talent here, who didn't just go on to work for another salary for another company. They lost the type of talent that went on to develop their own performance daw. Besides the fact these particular programmer(s) were also at the helm of Vember Audio (Surge/Shortcircuit). And I'm doubtful they even had a hand in Live 8 at all. If they did, they couldn't have had much of a hand.

But I'll concede. It could just be a coincidence.

As far as I remember, they left just before the Live 8 beta ended, so it's more than likely they were involved. Also, they won a grant to develop their own software, which is how come bitwig was formed. What puzzles me is that the grant was only something like £20k but they've managed to afford office space and development time without having a product to sell. They must have second jobs, else they'd be living in cardboard boxes.

Jarvisimon wrote: As far as I remember, they left just before the Live 8 beta ended, so it's more than likely they were involved. Also, they won a grant to develop their own software, which is how come bitwig was formed. What puzzles me is that the grant was only something like £20k but they've managed to afford office space and development time without having a product to sell. They must have second jobs, else they'd be living in cardboard boxes.

They won a grant: That's correct.
Which is how come bitwig was formed: That's conjecture. Probably putting the cart before the horse there.
Second jobs to fund Bitwig ? Ever heard of venture capitalists ? NI just bought theirs out recently.

Press Enter wrote:
They won a grant: That's correct.
Which is how come bitwig was formed: That's conjecture. Probably putting the cart before the horse there.
Second jobs to fund Bitwig ? Ever heard of venture capitalists ? NI just bought theirs out recently.

Surely your "venture capital" suggestion is also conjecture, though I imagine you're probably right but even so, they've been 3 years in development. The investors must have been shown something tangible else they're investing blindly, also, any investor in computer music technology must be aware that the DAW market is very crowded, therefore the Bitwig investment is not as certain as all that.

It will be interesting to see exactly what they do come up with. I looked at surge/shortcircuit years ago but didn't think it was particularly user friendly, though it did look very capable, anyway, we're derailing this thread. The OP originally wanted to say that Live users hate Live, so i've answered that it's not the case but it's more than likely that he does.

There's a big difference between a small handful of people disliking a product and the entire user base being anti. Infact, I don't think any DAW users are dumb enough to use something they hate, though I could be wrong.

Would you?

Jarvisimon wrote: Surely your "venture capital" suggestion is also conjecture, though I imagine you're probably right but even so, they've been 3 years in development. The investors must have been shown something tangible else they're investing blindly, also, any investor in computer music technology must be aware that the DAW market is very crowded, therefore the Bitwig investment is not as certain as all that.

No, asking if you heard of venture capitalists was the sensible thing to ask seeing as you're forming all kinds of half assed notions of second jobs to fund the development of a professional performance daw, downplaying their talent and messing up the chronology of when & why Bitwig was formed. Besides which venture capitalists thrive in high-risk I.T. investments. The Bitwig team are incredibly talented programmers whether you liked Surge/Shortcircuit or not, and the grant they won - as bitwig - was surely a promising sign for any investor.

As for the thread's premise, it's nonsense so I'm not all that interested in adhering to it.

Ableton Live is the most hated DAW by people who would rather bitch about their software than use it to make music.

Deleted post.

Tweaking Knobs wrote:Why ?


because you dont listen to your users...

you dont give them BASIC features like LFOs, Beziers, and record automation (to session view)

you dont keep up with technology = OSC, improved workflow...( we all have 2 buttons on the mouse)

Your midi capabilities are worst than a 70's amiga computer...

yeah call me a hater...


And also you never talk about what is happening on live's development...

Yes too steep price without LFO , precise sampler, dedicated pianoroll and etc. They charge you $100 to get sampler and others whichever you want or not. And $250 to get simple LFO with bunch of unwanted geeky API things whichever you want or not. Excessive money only for that functions nowadays. There is no longer a merit only except session view to chose Live for that price. The world is changing.

I've been around audio software on a regular basis since the mid-90's - as an end-use, beta tester, QA tester, consultant, and teacher. In my experience, Ableton is one of the MOST receptive companies about adding requested features. They have had a rough go since Live 8, but overall they have listened to us more than any major company of widely used pro audio software.

Is Live missing some features commonly found in other DAWs? Yes. Is Live "perfect?" No. But it is pretty amazing and a lot of fun to work with.

Work with the limitations and make some music