what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

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emotionz22
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what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

Post by emotionz22 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:05 pm

Ive been playing piano for 3 years now and i still don't understand the difference between seventh chords and ninth chords...when i look at a virtual piano chord chart the notes are the same as each other so why give them two different names

ollyb303
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Re: what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

Post by ollyb303 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:09 pm

Fail.
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Khazul
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Re: what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

Post by Khazul » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:21 pm

Look again - You're not from Florida are you?

Maybe something here might help? http://www.musictheory.net/
Nothing to see here - move along!

chapelier fou
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Re: what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

Post by chapelier fou » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:09 am

The difference between the 7th and the 9th is .... the 9th.
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ilya.soloviev
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Re: what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

Post by ilya.soloviev » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:50 am

Only dominant 7th has the same notes as 9th

chapelier fou
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Re: what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

Post by chapelier fou » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:56 am

come on....
okay i'll never write in these "theory" topics ever.
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emotionz22
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Re: what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

Post by emotionz22 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:47 pm

i know now i guess their was just an error on the virtual piano chart

Bagatell
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Re: what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

Post by Bagatell » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:51 pm

emotionz22 wrote:i know now i guess their was just an error on the virtual piano chart
You mean for ALL 7ths and 9ths?

crumhorn
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Re: what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

Post by crumhorn » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:45 am

If you want to get really confused try comparing C6 and Am7.
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dcocharro
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Re: what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

Post by dcocharro » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:03 pm

You can think of 9ths, 10ths, 11ths...... as extra tension added to chords. When these notes have this kind of role, usually you don't find them in the same octave of the root.
If you look at the scale 9, 10, 11 are equivalent to 2nd, 3rd, 4th of the scale and so on...

The C6 can be thought as the first inversion of the Am.

moonpie
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Re: what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

Post by moonpie » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:51 pm

dcocharro wrote:You can think of 9ths, 10ths, 11ths...... as extra tension added to chords. When these notes have this kind of role, usually you don't find them in the same octave of the root.
If you look at the scale 9, 10, 11 are equivalent to 2nd, 3rd, 4th of the scale and so on...

The C6 can be thought as the first inversion of the Am.
Exactly -


I think of them in a new way now I really find helpful - as in some situations you wont know when or how to write an 11th chord etc. So this will help song writing.

Think of it this way - in traditional song writing terms - when writing a piece of music, people usually start writing a simple chord progression. (writing a melody and then harmonizing gives far more interesting results when you know how, but we'll stick with this) Then probably write a melody on top of the chords.

Generally we dont always want the melody to land perfectly in consonance with the chord on the 1st beat of a given bar. We want suspension or dissonance to keep interest in the melody, otherwise everything becomes predictable and bland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consonance_and_dissonance So we choose a note that isnt part of the chord for dissonance, and then resolve it on the 2nd beat or thereabouts. 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, sus4, 6 are all just naming conventions for the different types of dissonance we can have on any given chord.

Take for example the chord C major in the key of C major - notes are C, E, G.

Right, so we might want to add a bit of suspense to the chord and avoid using one of the chord tones notes with our melody. (these all apply to the highest notes) So notes we have left -

D - 9th (a full octave and a 2nd above the tonic note - C is the tonic in this case)

F - 11th (An octave and a 4th above)

A - 13th (An octave and a 6th)

B - major 7th

Then, if the melody is closer to the tonic, you have suspensions -

F - (suspended 4th, replacing the 3rd - your ear will want it to resolve by falling to the 3rd of the chord)

Then various inversions and so on.

So remember - chord additions are simple just ways of describing the various dissonances possible within a chord, and are 'usually' describing the melody. They are vital to keep interest and the music moving.

If youve ever seen a chord book of any band (the beatles are an easy example) the chord boxes they give above the music generally arent what the band play - they are the piano/guitar chords plus the melody. John Lennon is probably playing a normal G chord, but is signing a 'A' on top of it on the 1st beat, so the chord in total (as you have to take in account all the music going on) is a G9.

If you get the balance between dissonance and consonance just right, youll have a great melody to work with.

Anyways, hopes this helps some people figuring out when and where to use these chords. If their melody is any good, theyre probably using them already. Just people forget vocal melody or synth melody is still part of the chord.

crumhorn
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Re: what is the difference ( 7th and 9th chords)

Post by crumhorn » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:59 pm

Cant resist taking this opportunity to plug The Crumhorn Chord Calculator

http://www.sharehost.co.uk/Live/chordsliderule.html
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 99&start=0
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

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