Ableton Forum

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:47 pm**

hello,
I am new to Ableton, learning a lot, still have many skills to master.
Since I am planning to take my act on stage I am constructing a funky portable case with all the devices I need: mini-PC, monitor, mouse&keyboard inputs, APC40, KeyRig49 piano keyboard, USB soundcard, mic & headphone..
The case is made of transparent plastic, and the cover (which will face the audience when performing) is going to have 147 RGB LEDs, devided in 63 channels which can be controlled by MIDI (I soldered up an electronic circuit that converts MIDI-on messages into DC current )
Some pictures of the on-going project.

So far so good. Not finished yet, but so far it all works.. and I can control my lights with one or more MIDI tracks in Live. Cool! When you blink lights, blink 'em in sync, or don't blink at all is my motto.

Now, to make the programming of the LED-lights easier I would be greatly helped if I can connect more than one light channel to one piano key. For example: one key will blink all the greens in a single row.

Ableton Live has several MIDI-effects built in, like Chord and Scale, but both don't seem up for the job.
With Chord I can have multi output to one single note, but here the problem is that for every note, it outputs all the same relative notes; I need to be able to program manually which multiple notes will be triggered by each individual note. For example: note C3 triggers: C3, E3, F3, note C#3 triggers C3, D3, G3 and A#3 etc..
Scale has limited abilities to remap MIDI notes, but it doesn't support multiple output.

I was hoping to find a VST-plugin that will take care of the job, but so far, I can't seem to find one. I run Win7 64bit. The "S-Note-Matrix" VST plugin on http://www.s-production.de/index_vst.htmlthis page looked promising, but it won't run on a 64bit system.

The other option is using Max for this. I am pretty sure it must be possible to program it to do what I want, but at this point I don't know anything about Max (and I'm still busy mastering Live itself).

To me, it seems that it shouldn't be that complicated to find some plugin that will do what I want..

My question: can anyone recommend me a plugin that will do the trick (that will run on Wint7/64bit/Live8)? Or does anyone know if there already exists a thing like this in Max?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:15 pm**

brum_d wrote:/sets/72157628257315281/</a>]
Ableton Live has several MIDI-effects built in, like Chord and Scale, but both don't seem up for the job.
With Chord I can have multi output to one single note, but here the problem is that for every note, it outputs all the same relative notes; I need to be able to program manually which multiple notes will be triggered by each individual note. For example: note C3 triggers: C3, E3, F3, note C#3 triggers C3, D3, G3 and A#3 etc..
Scale has limited abilities to remap MIDI notes, but it doesn't support multiple output.

Would it help to put multiple Chord and/or Scale plugins in a MIDI effect rack?

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:18 pm**

...or just draw the chords into midi clips and midimap the notes you want to each clip.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:39 pm**

mothergarage wrote:
brum_d wrote:/sets/72157628257315281/</a>]
Ableton Live has several MIDI-effects built in, like Chord and Scale, but both don't seem up for the job.
With Chord I can have multi output to one single note, but here the problem is that for every note, it outputs all the same relative notes; I need to be able to program manually which multiple notes will be triggered by each individual note. For example: note C3 triggers: C3, E3, F3, note C#3 triggers C3, D3, G3 and A#3 etc..
Scale has limited abilities to remap MIDI notes, but it doesn't support multiple output.
Would it help to put multiple Chord and/or Scale plugins in a MIDI effect rack?

I think this would work, though I can think of a way on Max to do this in a much neater and more manageable way - and it is not that difficult to program. How many light do you want to program for each note? Or does this vary? Do you want to lights to toggle on when the note is on and off when note is released or just trigger as a kind of one shot?

Presuming you have M4L, it wouldn't take me very long to get you started - I have done similar things in the past I could leverage.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:06 pm**

Thank you all for your input! Greatly appreciated!.
Maybe chaining Chord and Scale effects is an option, but thing is: I want to make the programming of the lights easier, not more complicated. It seems that this way it is going to cost me more time than it'll save me.

trevox wrote:..though I can think of a way on Max to do this in a much neater and more manageable way - and it is not that difficult to program. How many light do you want to program for each note? Or does this vary? Do you want to lights to toggle on when the note is on and off when note is released or just trigger as a kind of one shot?

Presuming you have M4L, it wouldn't take me very long to get you started - I have done similar things in the past I could leverage.

.

I have a feeling that Max is the way to go, also because it has many more options which I might start using in a later stage. Yes, I have M4L, and the amount of lights programmed for each note varies, ranging from 2 to max. 63
I'd be interested in a bit of help to get me started!

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:47 pm**

brum_d wrote:Thank you all for your input! Greatly appreciated!.
Maybe chaining Chord and Scale effects is an option, but thing is: I want to make the programming of the lights easier, not more complicated. It seems that this way it is going to cost me more time than it'll save me.

trevox wrote:..though I can think of a way on Max to do this in a much neater and more manageable way - and it is not that difficult to program. How many light do you want to program for each note? Or does this vary? Do you want to lights to toggle on when the note is on and off when note is released or just trigger as a kind of one shot?

Presuming you have M4L, it wouldn't take me very long to get you started - I have done similar things in the past I could leverage.
.

I have a feeling that Max is the way to go, also because it has many more options which I might start using in a later stage. Yes, I have M4L, and the amount of lights programmed for each note varies, ranging from 2 to max. 63
I'd be interested in a bit of help to get me started!

63!! The only problem with this is storage when you save your live set. There's an object called coll which save lists and is ideal for this situation and would cater for any amount of lights. However, the data does not save when you save your Live set - you have to save a text file and then load it when you start your live set. Anyway, I found the thing I was looking for and see if there is anything I can do quickly that may work for you. Would you be against the idea of saving the text file manually?

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:49 pm**

trevox wrote: Do you want to lights to toggle on when the note is on and off when note is released or just trigger as a kind of one shot?

I want the lights to go on with Note On, and off with Note Off. So, with the key pressed, ALL the lights connected to that key go on. When I release that key, ALL lights go off.
The velocity doesn't matter; my MIDI-to-action board triggers a channel on with any velocity=1-127, and off with a velocity=0 or a 'note off' signal.

Would you be against the idea of saving the text file manually?

I have no objection to that. And anyway, I think I might learn a thing or two from your example. Thanks in advance!

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:43 pm**

garyboozy wrote:...or just draw the chords into midi clips and midimap the notes you want to each clip.

That might actually work as well.. I have to see if I can find a way to keep those abundance of clips organized in some manner..

mothergarage wrote:Would it help to put multiple Chord and/or Scale plugins in a MIDI effect rack?

also, the suggestion to use a MIDI-rack is a possibility; I didn't realize I can put more than one Chord thingies and attach them to one note. On the other hand, there is very little overview doing it this way..

Great to have some people thinking with me!

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:07 pm**

It'd be great to see what light patterns could be made if you had an arpeggiator before that:)

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:26 pm**

It appears you can only store 14 value using coll which will limit the number of lights to 4 per key. 63 seems a bit of a stretch for the method I was looking at. Having said that, if there were only 14, it may be possible without too much grief to not use coll and find a better storage method. Do you really need more than say 16 per note?

ps - I have the guts working just fine, as in one key can play 14 notes of your choosing from lists. The number of notes per key and storage are the only issues...

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:40 pm**

For more notes, couldn't you have another track receiving the midi and then set the extra notes with the another chord device?

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:42 pm**

trevox wrote:..Do you really need more than say 16 per note?
ps - I have the guts working just fine, as in one key can play 14 notes of your choosing from lists. The number of notes per key and storage are the only issues...

Well, eventually it would be nice if there is no limit in the amount of notes triggered by one key, but 14 (or 16) is already a great help. And I am very interested in seeing your solution.

Operating 63 channels means I can flash all 147 LEDS on/off in white (red+blue+green), but for most patterns, the amount of channels triggered by 1 key would be significantly less. If you could stretch the max. number to 21 that would be really convenient (that would mean that I could trigger ALL leds in a single colour).
But, of course, I could always use a Chord-thingie AFTER the MIDI-map effect..

thanks again!

For more notes, couldn't you have another track receiving the midi and then set the extra notes with the another chord device?

I just finished typing that

!

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:47 pm**

brum_d wrote:
trevox wrote:..Do you really need more than say 16 per note?
ps - I have the guts working just fine, as in one key can play 14 notes of your choosing from lists. The number of notes per key and storage are the only issues...
Well, eventually it would be nice if there is no limit in the amount of notes triggered by one key, but 14 (or 16) is already a great help. And I am very interested in seeing your solution.

Operating 63 channels means I can flash all 147 LEDS on/off in white (red+blue+green), but for most patterns, the amount of channels triggered by 1 key would be significantly less. If you could stretch the max. number to 21 that would be really convenient (that would mean that I could trigger ALL leds in a single colour).
But, of course, I could always use a Chord-thingie AFTER the MIDI-map effect..

thanks again!

For more notes, couldn't you have another track receiving the midi and then set the extra notes with the another chord device?
Appears it is not a limitation of coll, but the method I am using to populate it. Will have a look...
I just finished typing that !

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:36 pm**

OK, go it working with 64 note outs - one single number box was out of place causing it not to work properly!

So here is how to use....

Load it into the midi track you want to use. As default, no midi will come through at all.

Click on Root and choose the midi note you wish to assign notes to.

Choose the notes you want to assign that key to.

Click on "Send" in the top left. Once you do this, when you play the root note, all chosen notes will be played. Note that when C-2 is chosen, no notes will be played at all. In effect C-2 means Off and you cannot play this as a note in this setup. You can change all 64 menus if you like to reflect this!!

Notice that if you play any other note, nothing will go through until you choose some notes and hit the send button.

You can clear all notes (the entire buffer) using the "Clear All" button.

When you choose a different root note to one you have already assigned notes to, all current notes will display as you last set them. If you choose a note that you have not yet assigned notes to, nothing will happen. This can be used almost to copy setting between notes. Just choose a different root note and hit send and the same notes will be assigned to that key. Actually, before using it may be beneficial to choose C-2 as the root note and send so you can completely clear all assigned note for one root note at a later stage - if you know what I mean. It will not affect anything adversely. Come to think of it - make sure you do this as it could save a lot of time later.

Now for saving (the painful part).
Click on "Save Note List" and you will be asked where you want to save and what to call it. Make it something you will remember!

When you reopen you Live set, while some of the note menus make it look like something has been saved, it has not. To load your saved note list, click on "Read Note List" and you will be asked to choose a file. Choose the one you just saved. Note that you will be asked to do this twice - the reason being that I had to use 2 coll's - one to actively choose the notes to play and the other to reset the note menus.

You can doubleclick on the coll objects to see what is in them at any time. They should be identical at all times.

You can find the patch here....

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30280761/multi_note_out.amxd

Let me know if you have any problems - good luck!

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:57 pm**

Wow!! You're the man!! This looks simply perfect! Many many thanks!
I downloaded the file, and I'll try it tomorrow (unfortunately no time to do it straightaway)!
I'll let you know if I can get it to work!
And thanks again!!!!

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