Ableton Forum

My understanding for the best way to setup a laptop with Live for DJ'ing (correct me if I'm wrong), is to route each channel from Live into a channel in the mixer. That way would can use the mixer for your typical DJ effects and headphone cue'ing..

So I've been looking at soundcards to buy and I'm stuck between the M-Audio FW 410 (4 analog outputs) and the Echo Indigo DJ (2 analog outputs). So, is what I'm saying correct? Would I have more freedom with the FW410, as I could pass 4 channels through my mixer? Or is it just as easy routing Live through Echo Indigo's virtual channels, into the mixer, and using it that way?

I just want to find out what other people are doing for DJ'ing, so that I'm buying the most practical solution..

BTW, I just bought a Sony A690 laptop for production/dj'ing, and it is simply amazing.. Even though the screen is only 17" it has the same resolution as a 23" LCD.. great for Live (and other sequencers!)

mike_c wrote: So I've been looking at soundcards to buy and I'm stuck between the M-Audio FW 410 (4 analog outputs) and the Echo Indigo DJ (2 analog outputs). So, is what I'm saying correct? Would I have more freedom with the FW410, as I could pass 4 channels through my mixer? Or is it just as easy routing Live through Echo Indigo's virtual channels, into the mixer, and using it that way?

As a former fw410 user, I (and probably others here, too) will advise you to steer clear of the m-audio. Yes, it is a good card and cand do what you want, but the drivers for it are nothing short of terrible. I think that for DJ'ing, you'll find that the echo can do most everything you want the m-audio to do at much less frustration and price.

(fwiw, I switched to a presonus firebox, which works quite a bit better).

I heard the M-Audio's only really had a problem with Macs? And that they worked fine with Windows..?

mike_c wrote:I heard the M-Audio's only really had a problem with Macs? And that they worked fine with Windows..?

Eventually, mine refused to work with either, but I suspect that was bad hardware, not software. Either way, after having 2 bad units (the second one had a faulty line in port and couldn't record) I was done with m-audio. Take my words with however much salt you prefer. =)

Sqook, the presonus firebox looks great! How do you have this setup when you DJ? Output directly from your laptop? Or do you have it setup like I mentioned earlier and use a traditional mixer?

Also, do you have the BPM meter in Live mapped to a controller, and beatmatch that way - how do you do beatmatch with Live? (is it possible to effectively beatmatch Live with vinyl?)

Thanks for your help so far!

Just to fill you in on something....

You can monitor in Live with a multi-channel card. You send one output to
your mixer/FOH and another to your headphones. However you can also
do it how you described by sending multiple outputs to a mixer and
monitoring from there. It's up to you.

-Ben

mike_c wrote:Sqook, the presonus firebox looks great! How do you have this setup when you DJ? Output directly from your laptop? Or do you have it setup like I mentioned earlier and use a traditional mixer?

Actually, I mostly DJ with traktor + vinyl. But yeah, with both apps, I just route ports 1/2 to one channel on my mixer and 3/4 on another, that way I can either mix from one to another with my mixer, or simply use the 3/4 ports as a cue channel. I'd actually like to use ports 1/2 and 3/4 as dedicated traktor channels, and then use the 1/2 inputs and 5/6 outputs for ableton as an effects processor on the send/recv. ports on my mixer, but until I have a little more processing power at my disposal, that's not really going to happen. =)

Also, do you have the BPM meter in Live mapped to a controller, and beatmatch that way - how do you do beatmatch with Live? (is it possible to effectively beatmatch Live with vinyl?)

In my opinion, no, I don't think that it's very easy to match live against vinyl. Then again, I'm not exactly an awesome superstar-DJ or anything, but from my use of the product, it's easy to get it roughly in sync, but it's hard to correct live once it starts going off tempo, and you don't always want to correct the record instead (in the case of a record with vocals, etc). Typing in the tempo on the fly is equally annoying, but that's the closest way to get it precisely on beat. What ableton really needs to make this happen is a "nudge" button like traktor has, IMHO. So, when I use live and vinyl at the same time, it's primarily as an effects processor via VST's.

Edit: Yes, it's also possible to map the tempo to a midi controller, but I haven't found a way to make it more precise yet. =/ Each "click" of my uc33 adjusts live's tempo by about .75-1BPM, which is way too much... it might be possible to get it more precise, but I haven't really messed around with this too much, honestly.

Holding shift makes the tempo move in smaller increaments. You could
use Bome's to translate midi to the shift key.

-Ben

sqook
go into arranger and set the minimum/maximum values for tempo (under master, song tempo) to smaller differentials.
like 135 to 140bpm
then assign midi control to tempo and you'll have far greater detail in response.

AdamJay wrote:sqook
go into arranger and set the minimum/maximum values for tempo (under master, song tempo) to smaller differentials.
like 135 to 140bpm
then assign midi control to tempo and you'll have far greater detail in response.

Wow, thanks for the tip Adam... this works great!

Alas, I may sleep easier tonight knowing this mystery has been solved.

As a FW410 owner .... Do not buy it... Save the $$$ for a MOTU...

the new echo indigo firewire boxes also look great...

http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireW ... th_big.jpg

live is mightier than that!

to take the purity of live and plug in into some crappy pioneer DJ mixer is an atrocity. just get a midi controller. live can do more than any mixer on the market, just have your controller set up with whatever features you want... and tell the sound guy you refuse to be plugged in to an empty channel on the DJ mixer, insist on being fed directly into the main sound board!

Hello,
I own both FW410 and echoindigo dj and i've been djing with live since two years.
If it's just for djing and if you need mobility, echoindigo dj is what you need. Small latency, good sound... one output to the main soud, one for headphones...
The secret for djiing with live is to get a midi controller like the UC33e which you can program like you want with EQs, FXs etc...
FW410 is mainly for studio tasks (surround sounds, recording...) or if u need two headphones output for mixing with a partner...