Ableton Forum

Had a nightmare yesterday - and it's still there!

Prob:

After intsal. the updated 4.1.1 (and disabled Operator), i tried to render a song made in 4.1. The whole program freezed SOLID, and a nasty sound appeared at the very moment i clicked on render to disk, and it changed (when i tried again - and again) between that nasty rocket-takeoffsound to periodically blips-noises. And it were consatnt freezing with this sounds going, even when i tried to save the song under a new name - just clicking on "save as" freezed the whole system. Had to kill all processes from scratch to boot my DAW, and after almost going insane, i reinstalled 4.1, and tried to render the song there. Same shit happened there, but after deleting some minors (not the case - i know that for shure) and saving the set in 4.1, unloaded some tracks from RAM-mode, i managed to render the song.

Then i opened a new song i have a deadline on, mixed the set to the final stage, and the same bad stuff happened there, in 4.1 too - same horrible noises, and i tried to disable/use WDM instead of ASIO/turning all sounds off and on again - but it did't help at all..! So i did some minors, just to save it again in 4.1, booted Live, and it rendered the song.

The last thing i did was to open the third song, to mix that one a bit too, and then it crashed while opening the song in 4.1.1, and in 4.1 it opened the template instead of the song a couple of times. So now i'm starting the day behind my DAW, as usual, and i save all possible prayers while launcing Live now.

Any else noticed this?

I run a P4 3.2 HT Prescott (L2-1Mb), 2Gb 400mhz 3200LL ram, MSI FIS2R-Neo P875 mainboard (VIA-chipset (1394)), AGP 8x (nvidia GeForce FX 5600) on 2 crts, 10 000 rpm s-ata audiodrives, audiooptimized XP Pro SP2, mLAN2 (Firestation singing just sweet), UAD-1 dspcards,M-audio midisport 8x8/s, M-audio Oxygen 8 midiboard, and everything is running smooth like a oilrig.

Soft: Live 2.x-4.x, Reason 2.5, Wavelab 4, ReBirth - RB-338 and a lot of useless plugs - not worth to mention here, since i don't use them in these songs.

The plugs i use in these songs are vst only - no vsti's; i resample the tracks on the fly and delete the miditrack asap every time (cpuspike-friendly habit):
Master: UAD-1: Pultec Pro, 1176LN. Yamaha: Final Master. (in that order as well)
Sends: Ableton Live: Compressor. UAD-1: RealVerb Pro, RS-1. (in that order)
Tracks: UAD-1: Pultec. Interruptor: Analogic delay (rarely)

Don't got many ideas left why this happends, and it's very confusing; have used Live as mainhost since 1.5 and up to 4.1.1, and i (still) love Live, but i have to change my host, if this can't be solved ASAP! I know my DAW is running very nice and stable, the only possible reason why this happends in my mind, is the mLAN2-protocol or the UAD-1 dspcards that don't agree with 4.1.1, but all other releases.

Thats about it, and i really hope the Abletons can tell me, and others that (might) got the same problem, what to do, fix this with a new bugfix - if needed, or at least tell us why this happends in 4.1.1 and not in 4.1!

Regs,
Jo

Hi myztmuzic,

sorry but I am not sure if I understand it right.


1.)
So you have a Live set that is freezing Live 4.1.1 when you try to render it there.
But when you try to render it in Live 4.1 it worked after you did some "minors" (whatever that means).

Did you tried to render it in Live 4.1.1 after you did the "minors" that allowed you to render it in 4.1?


2.)
You have a Live set where it freezed when rendering in Live 4.1, but after some "minors" you could save it there and after reopening In Live 4.1 it was possible to render?

Same question here: Did you tried to render it in Live 4.1.1 after you did the "minors" that allowed you to render it in 4.1?


3.)
You have a set that crashes in Live 4.1.1 when opening but opening this set in Live 4.1 opens the template?



So far I do not see the differences between Live 4.1.1 and 4.1 or I do not understand what do you did.

If you have a Live set that (without to change it) can be rendered in Live 4.1 but not in Live 4.1.1 it would be clear thing.

I'm also interested in the what you called "minors" that allowed you to save the song?


regards,
Alex

Thanx, Alex!

1-2: Yes, i tried to render the songs in Live 4.1.1 after they were "fixed" and rendered in 4.1, with failure - total systemfreeze.

3: One song did the same as the other two in 4.1.1 and in 4.1 it launched an empty template instead of the song. Now i'm suddenly able to open it again, and i saved the set selvcontained when it suddenly opened, so now i can open it in 4.1 only - 4.1.1 cause the same noises as yesterday.

The "minors" were to unload tracks from RAM-mode, record some more; tracks, automation, and then save them selfcontained. I don't know what of what i did helped, but that was excactly what i did. It seem like a 4.1.1 - kind-of-bug..since 4.1 run as before.

Hope this lighten up a bit..

Thanx
Jo

Hi myztmuzic,


- do you render with a different sample rate as your your current sample rate settings?

- Does it freeze also when you in a first step disable all external plug-ins or in a second step remove all external plug-ins from the project?

- How does the freeze look? Do you see the rendering progress bar? Or does it freezes immediately after you press <OK> in the render dialog?

regards,
Alex

Hei, Alex!

- i render with the same samplerate as my current sampleratesettings.

- it freeze nomatter what i dis- or enable of the external plugins, and when i remove them from the project. Yamaha Final Master and Interruptors Analogic Delay are the only ones not powered, so i have tried disable those as with the powered ones too, in all possible ways/orders.
UAD-1 got a perf.monitor, and it doesn't help if i dis- or enable the powered plugins from UA from there, or in Live, or remove 'em all from the project either.

- the freeze looks heavy!
The rendering progressbar can't be seen at all in 4.1.1, only in 4.1. The moment i press <OK> in the renderdialog, it freeze solid - and Live's not responding to anything. Even the mouse and stuff like that (the whole system) freeze, and with a good portion of patience, i'm able to launch taskmanager from the keyboard (ctrl-alt-del), and with even more patience, i can kill the Live-PROGRAM from there ("not responding") - but the Live-process still runs, so i have to boot my daw to get the Live-process killed. But before i'm able to do that, i have to manually kill all mLAN-processes too, or it won't boot. "mLAN-stop" can't be executed while Live's not killed - but after killing all mLAN-processes from taskmanager, (Live can't be killed after that either, tho) i can reboot the daw.

Thanx a lot for your time and effort! Don't know about the Operator, since it's not possible to disable/hide in 4.1, and it's done in 4.1.1 - but it shouldn't matter, should it? - cause i've never used it..

Regs,
Jo

Hi myztmuzic,

ok, I can understand that it must be frustrating. To solve this problem we need to reproduce it here. So what we would need is a self-contained version of this song. Unfortunately the included audio files are probably too big to send the song using email. What you could do is trying to reduce the song more and check if it still happens but also this is somehow nasty and needs a lot of time and freezes.

Please contact me directly by mail about this issue. I will see if we find some alternatives to get closer to the problem.

regards,
Alex

Here we go again, Alex.. I post this here, cause i see this topic has been watched by a lot of others - and i have (in my opinion) some really strange news i do NOT understand (again) !

Today Everything works just fine in 4.1.1! I don't know why; i haven't done Anything new at all - and the songs render like never before - in 4.1 and 4.1.1. I can't even reproduce the problems; like there's never been any.. - but there shure has!!

I will of course keep an eye on this prob, and try to reproduce this mess now and then (now i'm able to make my second deadline as well)
- If it happends again (i guess it will, but you never know), i'll send you a selfcontained copy of the projects causing this "bug", or what on earth it is/was. My work can now continue without freezing at the final stage, and i'm happy it solved "itself", or what ever caused this correction.

Now i don't have to change my host - luckily; it would be like taking a giant step backwards and a massive dissapointment anyway to walk away from Live after so many years

Thank you very much for your indepth response on this, Alex! This forum has gained a lot after you entered here - so a big thanx again is all i can say..!

Best,
Jo

Hi Jo,

indeed it sounds really strange. On the one hand I am glad that the problem seems to go away (fro now) but on the other hand I really would like to know what happened there.

However, let us hope it does not come back.

regards,
Alex

Yes, Alex, it's indeed very strange. Have tweaked different daws for years, and i've "always" used Live as my mainhost (at least since i discovered it, actually since 1.5) - and i've never encountered any problems whatsoever running Live. At least none caused by Live itself. Thats one of the reasons i find this very strange too - i find Live rocksolid and very nice to work with, compared to other major hosts (no names mentioned ).

Didn't manage to reproduce the hickups yesterday, so i'll keep an eye on it and try stressing Live a bit today too.

I give you instant feedback if i succeed reproducing the problem; i really understand you Abletons would like to know what happened, and i can insure you; problems like this have never encountered in my rig before running Live 1.x to 4.x!

Thank you very much for your time, effort and patience with me, Alex! I really preciate this!

Best regards,
Jo