Is Hardware Dead? Am I dead? Very off topic...
Is Hardware Dead? Am I dead? Very off topic...
After years of working on hardware synths, samplers, HD recorders I eventually took the plunge about a year and half ago a went "all virtual" with my studio. meaning all I have now is my computer, MIDI keyboard, and a bunch of software. Lately I've been having what I first thought to be writer's block but now I'm beginning to think otherwise. For the first time in a long while I grabbed an issue of Future Music. they were out of Computer Music and i "needed" a $15.00 magazine. i missed FM and it got me thinking back to when i was sequencing tunes and sampling on my ASRX Pro and tweaking knobs on my MS2000. i remember how much i would "get into" writing a tune and would spend days going at it. i don't get that feeling much when working with Logic or most other software. yeah, it's much faster and cheaper and lots of other benefits but i think i'm getting bored and i don't think i like using my eyes to write music. is anyone here using any hardware anymore? i'm thinking of buying another MPC2000 or something, anything, that i can plug stuff into and touch and just listen to. think it's a big waste of money? think hardware samplers will even exist in 2 years? shit, Akai already went out of business. your thoughts please.
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Alex Reynolds
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:48 am
- Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
- Contact:
Some things with hardware are:
-- its technology is often more proprietary than software, which means more flexibility costs more money than software
-- it ages much faster than software because what it can do with sound is largely locked in from day one of purchase
-- hardware lacks much needed porn-viewing functionality (though I hear Roland is working on something in this direction)
On the other hand, there are pluses to hardware:
-- much more reliable than software in most cases (does an MPC2000 crash while you're in the middle of performing?)
-- sound quality can be much nicer (if you're paying more)
-- more "human"-scale interface that can lend itself to faster and more fruitful exploration
People are still twiddling records, for example, because a turntable lends itself to doing that naturally, even though the same can be done as easily and cheaper with a mouse, a library of MP3 files and Reaktor et al.
I simply cannot afford most hardware, and I don't have living space for big racks of equipment. So I find a good compromise right now is one large MIDI dial controller that can control effects and faders at once, one small keyboard for knocking out simple melodies, and one pad for triggering samples.
Whether you are using hardware or software, these are just means to a single end: to discover, make and arrange cool sound.
When your technology gets in the way of that process, then you need to consider alternatives.
If you have "writer's block", what I do is step away from making music for a week and do something else: code, watch movies, read books, write, knock off with friends, etc.
Another option might be Eno's Oblique Strategies:
-- http://www.rtqe.net/ObliqueStrategies/
Best,
-Alex
-- its technology is often more proprietary than software, which means more flexibility costs more money than software
-- it ages much faster than software because what it can do with sound is largely locked in from day one of purchase
-- hardware lacks much needed porn-viewing functionality (though I hear Roland is working on something in this direction)
On the other hand, there are pluses to hardware:
-- much more reliable than software in most cases (does an MPC2000 crash while you're in the middle of performing?)
-- sound quality can be much nicer (if you're paying more)
-- more "human"-scale interface that can lend itself to faster and more fruitful exploration
People are still twiddling records, for example, because a turntable lends itself to doing that naturally, even though the same can be done as easily and cheaper with a mouse, a library of MP3 files and Reaktor et al.
I simply cannot afford most hardware, and I don't have living space for big racks of equipment. So I find a good compromise right now is one large MIDI dial controller that can control effects and faders at once, one small keyboard for knocking out simple melodies, and one pad for triggering samples.
Whether you are using hardware or software, these are just means to a single end: to discover, make and arrange cool sound.
When your technology gets in the way of that process, then you need to consider alternatives.
If you have "writer's block", what I do is step away from making music for a week and do something else: code, watch movies, read books, write, knock off with friends, etc.
Another option might be Eno's Oblique Strategies:
-- http://www.rtqe.net/ObliqueStrategies/
Best,
-Alex
tjwett......
i'm with you on that one. i was hardware for ages aswell, but as soon as i saw live i just had to grab it. i took that plunge too, going laptop, more or less kicking MIDI out the window. i remember the time when i used to tweak the shit out of my gear for days and weeks, solely (?--> only) working one track to perfection. now it all seems so easy, just throw in the loops, check out new looping points, stretchin', pitchin' till i can't remember what sound it was originaly. sure it's fun, but i found that sometimes i tend to letting myself get driven in the wrong direction. well, wrong is not the correct word, i mean, i spend too much time fooling around, not really thinking about where i wanted to go initially.
but that's cool too, cuz you find more things you didn't think of before.
the good thing about this is, i can just save the shit and come back to it weeks after, and it's still the way i saved it, god i hated sysex dumps n shit.
but i love live, i love to take my laptop on the train from here to there and just mess about. i couldn't go back to MIDI...
we're in the 22nd century, right[/quote]
i'm with you on that one. i was hardware for ages aswell, but as soon as i saw live i just had to grab it. i took that plunge too, going laptop, more or less kicking MIDI out the window. i remember the time when i used to tweak the shit out of my gear for days and weeks, solely (?--> only) working one track to perfection. now it all seems so easy, just throw in the loops, check out new looping points, stretchin', pitchin' till i can't remember what sound it was originaly. sure it's fun, but i found that sometimes i tend to letting myself get driven in the wrong direction. well, wrong is not the correct word, i mean, i spend too much time fooling around, not really thinking about where i wanted to go initially.
but that's cool too, cuz you find more things you didn't think of before.
the good thing about this is, i can just save the shit and come back to it weeks after, and it's still the way i saved it, god i hated sysex dumps n shit.
but i love live, i love to take my laptop on the train from here to there and just mess about. i couldn't go back to MIDI...
we're in the 22nd century, right[/quote]
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dirtystudios
- Posts: 1196
- Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:28 am
i used to be a big, fat gearwhore. then i got's me a tibook. while i will agree that having gear and knobs and stuff lying haphazardly around my apartment made for some fun twiddling, the ability to have everything right with me at all times is fuckin neat. i can go sit anywhere and be inspired, or if insipration hits me unexpectedly i have everything i need to get a tune going. i don't think i'll ever go back to having tons of stuff. now if only they could make the oxygen 8 thinner...
k
k
this may be the one thing that is keeping me on the computer. and at the same time, my biggest distraction that's keeping me from writing tunes. i gotta cut that shit loose and focus on music...right after i wash my hands. i'm thinking of getting a windshield wiper installed on my monitor.Alex Reynolds wrote:...hardware lacks much needed porn-viewing functionality (though I hear Roland is working on something in this direction)....
seriously though, good points from everyone and i think i'll try and find some cheap hardware thing to integrate into my setup. maybe the Akai trigger pad thingy would be fun. read a pretty bad review of it though. anyway, peace out.-
stubby
I know exactly how you feel, I got so frustrated with it that I came to the conclusion that I will never sell anything again, and instead just take my old gear and create different workstations out of it. You know part of the problem is that our peers make us feel guilty for having too much gear or too much software, but in reality we're just cutting ourselves off from experiencing our own creativity in different ways, which now i've learned, at least for my self is crucial to my musical happiness and general well being. even for those of us with limited space, i still thinks its practical to have a hybrid setup, most grooveboxes aren't that big and its easy to make a desk or shelf with a bunch of trays to house all of your EQt , computer, controller, and modules.
so I think going hybrid is the perfect solution, that way you can bounce back and forth based on how you feel or what you're drawn too. when your sick of all the hardware and you want to have it all under one screen you can go right back to logic.
your music would probably end up sounding more well rounded too I know mine does.
so I think going hybrid is the perfect solution, that way you can bounce back and forth based on how you feel or what you're drawn too. when your sick of all the hardware and you want to have it all under one screen you can go right back to logic.
your music would probably end up sounding more well rounded too I know mine does.
stubby, i like your attitude. the thought of having a bunch of hardware and software and being able to setup a variety of ways to work sounds VERY appealing to me right now. i really would love to have a hardware sampling drum machine again. maybe i'll get a used MPC or ASRX again. also, i MUST get myself a Sidstation before they run out. last i looked the chip count was at about 150.
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Guest
Do you think that the almost infinite possibilities within live call for a bit more self discipline?sure it's fun, but i found that sometimes i tend to letting myself get driven in the wrong direction. well, wrong is not the correct word, i mean, i spend too much time fooling around, not really thinking about where i wanted to go initially.
but that's cool too, cuz you find more things you didn't think of before.
"theres a tempation to do nothing simply because theres so much to do that one doesn't know where to begin" Cage
when i was hardware only i found myself shoehorning ideas into the (more) limited possibilities of whatever box. Live doesn't push you in a compositional direction (eg imposing limits like 16 steps) Now that theres less (no?) limits, its like we have to either be way more focussed to get from a-b, or way less focussed, fooling around, experimenting, letting things happen. a lot of music is accidental. "hunting for one thing, finding another".
i think what i'm trying to say is hardware is still useful + reliable, i agree with stubby about combining the two (hard + soft) but live requires a different, more open minded way of working than we're used to with hardware. Like hardware was easier cos its limitations engendered a working method, now things aren't that simple or predictable if you kind of step back and think about what is now possible inspiration can flow more freely...
just my opinion. Does this make sense people? what do you think?
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noisetonepause
- Posts: 4938
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:38 pm
- Location: Sticks and stones
Physical control is important to me. It doesn't sound spectacular, hasn't the best timing in the world, isn't very flexible, but I still love my Korg ES1 cos it's a physical thing with a crappy interface that forces me to LISTEN instead of LOOK. Same thing with a guitar - I still haven't got the hang of that particular Physical User Interface - the design must be flawed! 
-Paws
-Paws
Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.
Its like religion
You come to see the simplicity and beauty of a life without things to bother you when you worship and pray.
You go ascetic!
You feel in harmony with your new life but there are days you just whant all the stuff, a TV set to just throw away hours and hours again, new expansive gadgets to entertain you for a while (the race) ...
Then you feel a need to 'turn'. You 'repent' and sell the stuff or even give them away and find harmony with your Titan running Live and nothing more.
Myself I have the Titan, a knobbed Midi keyboard and a K-station for the tweaking desires.
Bless you all!
C
You come to see the simplicity and beauty of a life without things to bother you when you worship and pray.
You go ascetic!
You feel in harmony with your new life but there are days you just whant all the stuff, a TV set to just throw away hours and hours again, new expansive gadgets to entertain you for a while (the race) ...
Then you feel a need to 'turn'. You 'repent' and sell the stuff or even give them away and find harmony with your Titan running Live and nothing more.
Myself I have the Titan, a knobbed Midi keyboard and a K-station for the tweaking desires.
Bless you all!
C
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Guest
Great Thread! I think many of us have expirienced what tjw is descrbing. Right now I use Live and Reason with an Oxygen 8 for most of my sound design duties. I also have a selection of ethnic instruments to play if I feel the need, djembe, shakuhatchi, digideroo, chimes, etc. I am also planning on buying a Kawai k5000s after the holidays to satisfy my need for more than two octaves.
It's always a good idea to have inspiring instruments around you. Of course that's why I switched to Live in the first place.
-Kevin
It's always a good idea to have inspiring instruments around you. Of course that's why I switched to Live in the first place.
-Kevin
"Do you think that the almost infinite possibilities within live call for a bit more self discipline?
"theres a tempation to do nothing simply because theres so much to do that one doesn't know where to begin" Cage
when i was hardware only i found myself shoehorning ideas into the (more) limited possibilities of whatever box. Live doesn't push you in a compositional direction (eg imposing limits like 16 steps) Now that theres less (no?) limits, its like we have to either be way more focussed to get from a-b, or way less focussed, fooling around, experimenting, letting things happen. a lot of music is accidental. "hunting for one thing, finding another".
i think what i'm trying to say is hardware is still useful + reliable, i agree with stubby about combining the two (hard + soft) but live requires a different, more open minded way of working than we're used to with hardware. Like hardware was easier cos its limitations engendered a working method, now things aren't that simple or predictable if you kind of step back and think about what is now possible inspiration can flow more freely..."
you bring up some interesting points..
but i think that having too many options/easier to a certain extent devalues
and demoralizes creativity/art, makes it all disposible,creates laziness. Like Stravinsky ones said ,that limitations actually make art freer. And i agree, cause when its too easy ,your in a sense become a victim to what Cage says above, you lose a certain passion. I dont know what im trying to get to here really , cause its a never ending subjective talk of paradoxs, but id add ,that one has to set limits/challenges in ones process purposefully(like adding ridiculous hardware) ,so that it doesnt always come easy, other wise the life of a musician shortens for some.As W.Gibson once said "the future will remain the same except it will be faster and denser"
"theres a tempation to do nothing simply because theres so much to do that one doesn't know where to begin" Cage
when i was hardware only i found myself shoehorning ideas into the (more) limited possibilities of whatever box. Live doesn't push you in a compositional direction (eg imposing limits like 16 steps) Now that theres less (no?) limits, its like we have to either be way more focussed to get from a-b, or way less focussed, fooling around, experimenting, letting things happen. a lot of music is accidental. "hunting for one thing, finding another".
i think what i'm trying to say is hardware is still useful + reliable, i agree with stubby about combining the two (hard + soft) but live requires a different, more open minded way of working than we're used to with hardware. Like hardware was easier cos its limitations engendered a working method, now things aren't that simple or predictable if you kind of step back and think about what is now possible inspiration can flow more freely..."
you bring up some interesting points..
but i think that having too many options/easier to a certain extent devalues
and demoralizes creativity/art, makes it all disposible,creates laziness. Like Stravinsky ones said ,that limitations actually make art freer. And i agree, cause when its too easy ,your in a sense become a victim to what Cage says above, you lose a certain passion. I dont know what im trying to get to here really , cause its a never ending subjective talk of paradoxs, but id add ,that one has to set limits/challenges in ones process purposefully(like adding ridiculous hardware) ,so that it doesnt always come easy, other wise the life of a musician shortens for some.As W.Gibson once said "the future will remain the same except it will be faster and denser"