Ableton Forum

There has been some heated debate about the merits of live music here:

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=181870

As I was apparently taking this thread off topic, I have started a new one with the following view:

Most modern live popular music, whether electronic or rock, is rubbish and pointless, and the reasons why people go to it are largely shallow.

I'll go further. The resurgence in live music, be it rock, electronic, whatever (in my country anyway) has been the worst thing to happen for the evolution of the pop family tree since it started to sprout in the 50s when Sam Phillips used studio trickery to capture interesting musicians in an innovative new sound called Rock & Roll.

It is one of the main reasons why we have had no real genuinely innovative, popular, revolutionary new styles since Acid House/Rave and all its spin offs in the late 80s/early 90s. The nearest thing to a fresh new sound in the last 10 years ? Dubstep ffs. A purely DJ orientated style at first. And whatever smidgin of innovation that had has been ruined by its inevitable hijacking by wannabe live rock stars like Skrillex and the associated closet headbanger audience who want to stand in a room/field and stare at him. The same happened when 'bands' like The Prodigy wanted to distort what Rave was all about a few years before.

In the uk the big hyped scene in the last few years has been folk of all things. And busker type acoustic singer/songwriters like Ed Sheeran. What the hell is going on? Don't teenagers want to annoy their parents with an alien new sound that gives them a headache anymore?

I know loads of young people who sit with their dads and listen to Saxon and Iron Maiden. They go to metal gigs together. I'll bet many here will say 'cool!' but this sends a shiver down my spine. A shiver of missed opportunity for a lost generation that will never know the thrill of a musical revolution they can call their own.

And the slavish belief in the old fashioned view that a live venue with performing musicians is the place to go for a fresh, meaningful and exciting musical experience (particularly in the face of the myriad opportunities the technological revolution enables) is perhaps the biggest single reason for the stagnation in popular music.

Just in case anybody isn't clear:

When it comes to pop (rock, dance, electronic, whatever) - Live music is killing music.

Love to know what you think...

man you underestimate people

thats a fucking miserable (music)world view

simmerdown wrote:man you underestimate people

thats a fucking miserable (music)world view

+ 1

What a load of bollocks. You're going to the wrong shows fella.

And here we have a one frustraded hipster that got enough of listening to his favourite records through miserable PA in overcrowded space...
It's healthy reaction caused by this sick modern bull called "EDM".
Munga seems has never been to a jazz club or decent underground rave party to understand the vibe.
I don't get how come such acts like Deadmau5 or even worse Skrillex could get any audience at all. That's what is making difference between those lousy pretenders and for example Liam Howlett is: the show!
Liam who is creating the whole music is almost unnoticeable on stage behind his toys while Keith and Maxim is kicking the hell out of the audience...
Have you ever been to The Prodigy show? If you have you would never complain about live sound quality...

I would claim the opposite: it's the recorded (replayable...) music that is killing the music.

And you who claim to be such an audiophile mofo - don't you listen to mp3 through your shitty earbud phones?
Relax then and find some nice jazz club or even go to a church for some organ concert... and enjoy the moment.
There are places where future sounds are created. Here in Stockholm we have www.elektronmusikstudion.se and www.fylkingen.se among others...
They need young blood, but young blood is nowadays mostly profit oriented unfortunatelly...
Youngsters don't dare anymore. In that point I may agree with you...

Goddard wrote: Have you ever been to The Prodigy show? If you have you would never complain about live sound quality...

Really unfortunate that you have picked the one act in the world that I have seen more than once. 3 times in fact.

I saw Howlett's 2nd ever live appearance at a Rave called Nemesis in early 1991. Interesting use of a single Roland W30 to trigger loops. Fair enough.

2nd time a few months later at one of the huge outdoor Perception raves, after they had just hit the top 5 with 'Charley'. Howlett and the MCs spent too much time protesting to the crowd that they had definitely not 'sold out' and were still 'hardcore'. Hmmm. Like all Rave PA's at the time, it was a strange 30 minute disruption to the flow of the DJ groove which had been building up for hours.

3rd time a few years later during the 'Jilted Generation' tour. Horrendous technical problems (apparently with MIDI sync) meant huge gaps of silence whilst Howlett got increasingly pissed off, putting the whole crowd on a real downer of embarrassment and pity.

Not one of these occasions has come close to giving me the goose bump moment of hearing The Prodigy's 'Your Love' played by Carl Cox on his record player at a big rave . Or for that matter, coming out of a ghetto blaster on a hot summer day in a beer garden with mates.

Just saying - you assume too much of me, Goddard...

And anyway, I'm not just dissing the sound quality. It's the whole shebang.

I've seen too much to start to list.

Some famous, some not. Some great, some pretty bog standard, some rubbish. Some played as close to album version as possible, some tried to do something different. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Some were better than the DJs, some weren't. Sometimes the crowd were great, friendly and really got into it, sometimes they were arseholes. I could say exactly the same thing for DJs.

None of them ruined music for me.

Not even a power outage halfway through a prodigy set.

Buy this and read it for a good, in depth look at how music has stagnated for the last decade: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Retromania-Pop- ... 0865479941

wascal wrote:Buy this and read it for a good, in depth look at how music has stagnated for the last decade: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Retromania-Pop- ... 0865479941

Definitely be reading that, wascal, thanks. Wasn't aware of it despite reading a couple of other Simon Reynolds books over the years.

Reynolds doesn't always get it right - 'Energy Flash' was very patchy and fundamentally flawed. But 'Rip It Up & Start Again' is one of the best and most informative music textbooks I've ever read. Can't recommend it enough.

n/m.. Imo it can only get better it'll just take some time.

beatmunga wrote:

wascal wrote:Buy this and read it for a good, in depth look at how music has stagnated for the last decade: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Retromania-Pop- ... 0865479941

Definitely be reading that, wascal, thanks. Wasn't aware of it despite reading a couple of other Simon Reynolds books over the years.

Reynolds doesn't always get it right - 'Energy Flash' was very patchy and fundamentally flawed. But 'Rip It Up & Start Again' is one of the best and most informative music textbooks I've ever read. Can't recommend it enough.

Agreed about Energy Flash, good for what it is though. Some good discussion about the 'hardcore continuum' and all that malarkey to be had at www.dissensus.com too, if overanalysing music is your bag

wascal wrote: Some good discussion about the 'hardcore continuum' and all that malarkey to be had at http://www.dissensus.com too, if overanalysing music is your bag

Overanalyse? Moi?

Thanks for the link!

Edit: Shit wascal you're not joking, that whole music forum is like pandora's friggin' box of sweeties. I fear I may be out of my depth there, truth be told.

obvious troll is obvious.

Just saw Tinariwen Live.....Fantastic!

For me a live show should be a show. I’m no longer impressed by just sonic excellence. I want to be visually stimulated and if I’m not then I feel like it was money wasted. If I wanted just sonic excellence I would just listen to the music at home. But I am also at the age when I’d rather enjoy the show from a seat than jumping around in a crowd.