LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

[jbone1313]

Pardon if this is a dumb question, but does this only apply to third party plugins, or are Live's native devices impacted as well? What about MFL devices?

Thanks in advance.

[simpli.cissimus]

Pardon if this is a dumb question, but does this only apply to third party plugins, or are Live's native devices impacted as well? What about MFL devices?

Thanks in advance.

No, yes and yes...

[leisuremuffin]

Pardon if this is a dumb question, but does this only apply to third party plugins, or are Live's native devices impacted as well? What about MFL devices?

Thanks in advance.

since you got an brief answer form a hater, i'll give you a brief answer from a rational person:

First of all, i have no idea about M4L because i don't own it.
but here's a little experiment i did right now just for shits and giggles.
i took a 1 bar loop of a rhythmic track.
i put an auto pan set to chop at 1/8th notes on the track and listened to it.
I then put 3 compressors with look ahead set to 10ms in front of the autopan.
The effect was, as i expected, obviously out of time. 30ms is a pretty obvious delay to anyone. i deleted one compressor, and then played the track again. At this point, it's slightly noticeable, but not very. ok, so that is 20ms which is pretty bad!
I then put an eq8 with one parametric band turned on, but with gain set to 0 with the plugin set to high quality and copied and pasted it over and over again hoping to hear some audible latency affecting my autopan. I ran out of processor and could hear no audible latency. I ended up with 20 effect racks containing 20 HiQ EQ8s each and heard no audible delay. that's 400 EQ8s set to hiQ and i couldn't hear any delay. it was certainly less than 20ms because i could hear that on the loop i picked, but just barely.



i didn't try this with any other live effect, but i picked EQ8 on HiQ because it should be pretty bad, but like i said, i ran out of processor without hearing any delay.


Please note, I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with PDC. There is, and it should be improved. I am saying that it's not a big deal with live's native devices as far as i have experienced.



.lm.

edit for clarity --- OBviously i deleted all the compressors before starting the EQ copy and paste experiment. I was using the 3 compressors with lookahead just to make certain i could hear the effect of a definite 30ms delay.

[leisuremuffin]

i should have noted that my buffer settings were at 256samples at 88.2. That's what i usually use because i need minimal latency when i play my guitar through live... obviously if you reduce sample rate or increase the buffer the latencies will increase.



.lm.

[theophilus]

eq8 in HiQ mode will introduce small amounts of delay (1-2 samples per instance). in non-HQ mode, should introduce none at all.

[leisuremuffin]

Ok, so which ones are bad, then?

[theophilus]

Ok, so which ones are bad, then?

3dot has a list on here somewhere, though i can't find it now. iirc, the summary is anything in HQ adds 1-2 samples of delay, and a few devices that use lookahead (compressor, gate, multiband limiter?) introduce extra latency (for instance, in live 8, you can set compressor to 0, 1ms, or 10ms of latency). most devices do not introduce any.

[Angstrom]

eq8 in HiQ mode will introduce small amounts of delay (1-2 samples per instance). in non-HQ mode, should introduce none at all.

This is fixed in L9, for the new EQ8

[leisuremuffin]

so can we at least agree that anyone saying they have a problem with this with live's built in devices is beyond any help?


.lm.

[theophilus]

i don't think that's necessary. it's possible that live has a bug in some particular configuration. but i haven't seen it yet.

[leisuremuffin]

what i'm trying to say is that to answer the poor guys question from earlier, the answer is "no, this is not a problem with live's built in devices unless you're doing something really extreme."


.lm.

[simpli.cissimus]

unless you're doing something really extreme."

That is a good point !
Now it's up to decide what is extreme and what is not.

Is automating extreme ?
Is adding an effect after automation extreme ?
Is experimenting extreme ?
Is using HQ for an effect extreme ?
Is changing audio buffer extreme ?
Who knows ????

I think that having PDC problems for over three years "is" extreme !
...and there is no end in sight, "what tops even the extreme" !

Beside that, I'm not a hater ! (hate is not healthy... )
You got that impression because you can't deal with critics of any kind!
There is no help for you if you don't see it yourself.
...and the more you Fanboys pump it up, the more fun it is...

[leisuremuffin]

unless you're doing something really extreme."

That is a good point !
Now it's up to decide what is extreme and what is not.

Is automating extreme ?
Is adding an effect after automation extreme ?
Is experimenting extreme ?

I think that having PDC problems for over three years "is" extreme !
...and there is no end in sight, what tops even the extreme !

learn to quote, dumbass. anyway, you've chosen to ignore the context of what i'm saying. i'd attempt to explain it to you, but there's really no point.


.lm.

[leisuremuffin]

LOL, is 400 instances of EQ8 in HiQ on one track extreme? Cause i did that and there was no audible latency.


.lm.

[leisuremuffin]

Obviously this issue can be a huge problem with 3rd party plugs that have a lot of latency that get compensated in an appreciable amount by live's PDC. But your insistance that its a big deal with live's built in plug ins is just fucking stupid. We're talking about incredibly small latencies for AUTOMATION and tempo synched effects at the end of chains, not the audio.


.lm.