Ableton Forum

In two weeks, I'm doing my first Ableton-based live set and I need some 'basic' technical help.
When answering, just assume that my knowledge is 0%.

Things I already own:
- Ableton Live (of course)
- Novation Launchpad
- Korg nanoKONTROL

I use these together with a custom-designed 8-channel template to mix internally.

All there's left for me to do is find a reasonably cheap audio interface (preferably firewire as all my USB ports are taken up by my controllers) + the correct cables to hook it up to the club's DJ mixer.

I was looking at this audio interface: Behringer FCA202 (at €66, the cheapest I could find)
http://www.behringer.com/assets/FCA202_ ... ar_XXL.png
Anyone got any experience with these? Mind you, I don't need Apogee-quality sound, just something that doesn't sound horrible.

As for the cables ... I assume I just need one Jack-to-RCA cable to hook it up to the mixer, right?
(like this for instance: http://www.bax-shop.nl/jack-rca/procab- ... rettyPhoto)

Thanks in advance!

You'll need two cables, one for each stereo channel. Mixers are really variable so its worth having some adapters. I generally use a twin phono cable with with 4 phono to jack converters to let me cope withever works on the mixer.

mgpg wrote:In two weeks, I'm doing my first Ableton-based live set and I need some 'basic' technical help.
When answering, just assume that my knowledge is 0%.

Things I already own:
- Ableton Live (of course)
- Novation Launchpad
- Korg nanoKONTROL

I use these together with a custom-designed 8-channel template to mix internally.

All there's left for me to do is find a reasonably cheap audio interface (preferably firewire as all my USB ports are taken up by my controllers) + the correct cables to hook it up to the club's DJ mixer.

I was looking at this audio interface: Behringer FCA202 (at €66, the cheapest I could find)
http://www.behringer.com/assets/FCA202_ ... ar_XXL.png
Anyone got any experience with these? Mind you, I don't need Apogee-quality sound, just something that doesn't sound horrible.

As for the cables ... I assume I just need one Jack-to-RCA cable to hook it up to the mixer, right?
(like this for instance: http://www.bax-shop.nl/jack-rca/procab- ... rettyPhoto)

Thanks in advance!

Em. Okay, I dont know your exact situation, but Ill just give a rundown of 90% of the gig situations youll play.

Generally, youll want to connect your interface to the house mixer/mixing engineer. This is almost always done by connecting your interface to a a breakout box/D.I. on stage. i.e. you dont buy leads long enough to reach a mixing engineer 60ft away from you - which makes common sense). If the mixing desk is on stage and youre mixing, than connect whatever inputs you know the desk will have.

BUT - for the 90% of situations -

Basically Engineers (as a rule of thumb) dont "do" 1/4 inch inputs or RCA inputs normally - theyre usually expecting everything in XLR form. (XLR is an oridinary mic lead with 3 pins).

The outputs on interfaces are going to be for "balanced" 1/4inch jack leads. And Engineers require XLR type tip inputs...

You are going to need 1 lead for every channel you plan to use. If its stereo - youll need 2. One for Left, One for Right.

So, basically, heres your options


2 x http://www.thomann.de/ie/the_sssnake_sk ... okabel.htm + 2x http://www.thomann.de/ie/thomann_sk083_adapter.htm

Or

2 x http://www.thomann.de/ie/cordialcfm_15_vv.htm + 2x http://www.thomann.de/ie/behringer_ultradi_di600p.htm


(Pick your own lead lenghts. Also note that the 2nd option isnt "Instrument Leads" + DI boxes, but "Balanced Leads" + DI Boxes. Ill explain below.)


1st option = depends on the engineer to have a DI box to connect into. This wont always be the case every night. (some engineers suck).

2nd option = covers all you basses. Best investment to make in equipment, you wont ever be left short or panicking before the gig whether the engineer has everything you need.

Balanced Leads - Look like regular guitar/instrument leads, except have 2 "rings" on the jack instead of one. We use those on stage for our interfaces because they are much lower noise over long distances than a regular guitar cable. Balanced 1/4 inch leads are EXACTLY the same as Mic Leads (XLR Leads). Only they have 1/4 inch jacks on each end instead of XLR jacks. On the interface pic you posted, notice how it says "BAL/UNBAL" on the back. It means you can either stick unblanaced leads (regular instrument leads) or balanced leads in the back. But, we use balanced because of the low noise/low interference.

D.I. boxes (in their most simple function) convert 1/4inch outputs into XLR ouputs. Theres 2 types of DI boxes, Passive and Active. For your needs, you just need a passive(unpowered) one as your output is already line level.




The point Im trying to make is - never depend on an engineer to have niche equipment you may need. Even if they tell you they have them before the gig. Sometimes they dont have a spare DI, or a jack, or a way to connect one type of lead to another. Sometimes theyre space cadets whove totally forgotten the detailed list of setup requirements you need.

There is simply nothing worse than worrying about technical stuff before a gig instead of the performance. And the quicker you are a getting a live setup that you know inside out, thats stable, and you are prepared for every eventuality, the quicker youll be able to improve the performance instead of stressing over things outside your control. (Im clearly speaking from experience!)


If I was you, Id get the 2nd option. Covers every gig problem Ive had using laptop/interfaces.

Best of luck - may not be any help to you for your upcoming gig, but hopefully for the many after that!

Rule for gigs:
Put in a rider (your own additional page to the contract) saying what connectors you expect to hook up to. Then if they don't provide those connections, you have legal leverage.

In reality though, you should either physically go to the venue & see for yourself how things are hooked up, or ask face to fact the engineer what (s)he is able to do & prefers to do. You never know, they might have one of those fancy mixers with USB ports, so all the other advice on this thread may not apply. But, I'd follow their advice if you have the spare cash/time; ALWAYS good to have backup!

My lack of a Ground loop isolator ruined my first gig..

http://www.maplin.co.uk/ground-loop-isolator-33172

mgpg wrote:In two weeks, I'm doing my first Ableton-based live set and I need some 'basic' technical help.
When answering, just assume that my knowledge is 0%.

Things I already own:
- Ableton Live (of course)
- Novation Launchpad
- Korg nanoKONTROL

I use these together with a custom-designed 8-channel template to mix internally.

All there's left for me to do is find a reasonably cheap audio interface (preferably firewire as all my USB ports are taken up by my controllers) + the correct cables to hook it up to the club's DJ mixer.

I was looking at this audio interface: Behringer FCA202 (at €66, the cheapest I could find)
http://www.behringer.com/assets/FCA202_ ... ar_XXL.png
Anyone got any experience with these? Mind you, I don't need Apogee-quality sound, just something that doesn't sound horrible.

As for the cables ... I assume I just need one Jack-to-RCA cable to hook it up to the mixer, right?
(like this for instance: http://www.bax-shop.nl/jack-rca/procab- ... rettyPhoto)

Thanks in advance!

Hi,

I'd think about this interface

http://www.thomann.de/de/focusrite_saffire_pro_14.htm

It offers 4 outputs (symmetrical) for the club-mixer and for monitors plusa headfone output.
Monitor and Headfone have a hardware knob to adjust volume. The firewire bus is buspowered, so if the power is off for a while, your system is still running... The quality of the micpres is pretty good for that price!

Thanks for the replies so far everyone!

Few remarks:

1) Mind you, all my USB ports are taken up, so I have to get a FireWire audio interface! (My controllers are really buggy and constantly lagging when used through a USB-hub, even if it's a powered one, so that's a no go).

2) The mixer at the club has RCA inputs, so would it be a problem if I ditch the idea of getting an external interface altogether and use my laptop's standard mini-jack out? Or are there major downsides to this approach?

3) Is a ground loop isolator really necessary when only connecting to a mixer a few feet away?

mgpg wrote:2) The mixer at the club has RCA inputs, so would it be a problem if I ditch the idea of getting an external interface altogether and use my laptop's standard mini-jack out? Or are there major downsides to this approach?

Please don't do this. Main reason is audio quality but latecy will suffer. You probably won't think latency is a big deal until you're actually up there in front of people

mgpg wrote:3) Is a ground loop isolator really necessary when only connecting to a mixer a few feet away?

YES! As a rule of thumb I always bring one, even with a high quality audio interface. Also stock up on RCA > 1/4" adapters, and RCA gender changers etc.

OK, thank you.

The NI Audio 2 DJ interface is the one I like best so far, but it's USB. Any way around this?
Can I use a USB>Firewire converter and still expect it to work well?

No prob. Not sure about USB > Firewire. Seems like it'd be best to keep things as simple as possible, so there's less that can go wrong.

You're 100% sure it's the hub that's introducing lag to the controllers? If latency improves when you connect direcly then maybe you need another hub.

If latency is no different when you go direct/through the hub my guess would be it's because you're using the internal audio driver. My experience has been that using the laptop's internal driver introduces a fair amount of latency*, and going through an external card hugely improves this, even if it's through a USB hub, although personally I'd go:
USB 1 > interface
USB 2 > hub.

I have an Audio 2 DJ and they're nice, simple and get the job done. Bus power is desirable for playing live (last gig my audio interface power supply died, not good), the only real disadvantage is no mic input.

* and BTW if you end up going through the internal sound card you still need to use the ground loop isolator so maybe get an RCA to 3.5mm adapter too

I've seen plenty of laptop sets run from the headphone jack; having a sound card and ground loop isolators and di box does take some variables out... the latency is really an issue if you use direct x rather than asio for all (which is a free asio driver for windows). if you're playing into rca connectors then the issues about balanced leads becomes irrelevant ... i think. ground loops can be a problem, another way of avoiding them is to not have anything plugged into a mains... just run off the laptop battery. it all depends on how much money you want to spend. whatever you do, have a rehearsal first and schedule it so you have have enough time to get any kit you think will help. really pay attention to latency and the flow of the performance. being prepared as a live performer is easily as important.

oddstep wrote:I've seen plenty of laptop sets run from the headphone jack; having a sound card and ground loop isolators and di box does take some variables out... the latency is really an issue if you use direct x rather than asio for all (which is a free asio driver for windows). if you're playing into rca connectors then the issues about balanced leads becomes irrelevant ... i think. ground loops can be a problem, another way of avoiding them is to not have anything plugged into a mains... just run off the laptop battery. it all depends on how much money you want to spend. whatever you do, have a rehearsal first and schedule it so you have have enough time to get any kit you think will help. really pay attention to latency and the flow of the performance. being prepared as a live performer is easily as important.

I have a MacBook Pro, so the drivers are not an issue (as far as I'm aware).

The setup will be: laptop > RCA > DJ mixer. So no, I won't need balanced leads.
Does this mean I can run everything from my headphone jack just as well?

It will have to be plugged into a power outlet though, because I doubt my laptop can power 2 controllers and run a Live set for 2 hours straight ... I'll just get a ground loop isolator to be safe.

Take a multiway power adaptor with enough outlets for all your gear and a long extension cable.

Is there a sound guy and mixing desk or going into DJ mixer? Adapter choice depends on that, but worth having every combination for all situations anyway. Have you seen where you'll set up?

Gaffer (duct) tape. Strap them cables down. Last thing you want is for things to fall out. Even in you can hot swap with a MacBook.

Torch.

Ipod - in case of complete crash. If your system is 99% stable, the 1% chance of it failing will be on the night.

OP, read this series. Might help:

http://www.synnack.com/blog/post/13/lap ... ips-part-1
http://www.synnack.com/blog/post/14/lap ... ips-part-2
http://www.synnack.com/blog/post/15/lap ... ips-part-3
http://www.synnack.com/blog/post/21/lap ... ips-part-4
http://www.synnack.com/blog/post/23/lap ... ips-part-5
http://www.synnack.com/blog/post/26/lap ... ips-part-6
http://www.synnack.com/blog/post/28/lap ... ips-part-7
http://www.synnack.com/blog/post/51/lap ... ips-part-8