Surprised by Ableton Reverb

[donmich]

The poor ableton reverb seems to be notorious for (or at least widely regarded as) sounding bad. Admittedly I ran through some of the presets a long time ago and went "yuck" and never looked back seeing as I had other options.

So recently I have been digging Monolake's Ghosts and wondered several times what verb(s) he was using. I thought they sounded great. I then read that ableton interview with him and was shocked to read that he used abletons verb something like 80% of the time.

So I went back to give it another listen. Still, the presets are largely shamefully bad but I started drilling down with the settings and tailoring them to the material I was testing with and in no time it was like discovering a whole new Reverb in my setup. I was surprised how it held up against others which are widely hailed like Valhalla for example.

Anyway, just thought Id come clean about being wrong once again. (had a similar discovery with the compressor about 8 months ago).

[mihai]

i haven't messed around with the presets and i'm not comparing live's reverb to any convolution plugin but:

live's reverb is versatile in many situations so as long as you're not looking to specifically model the reverberation time/feeedback/etc. of your own specific bathroom then it definitely works fine.

[synnack]

It depends on what you're looking for and what makes a "good" reverb. Live's reverb sounds totally different in Eco mode than High quality mode. If you're looking for transparent reverb for vocals, Eco mode is pretty bad. But for me personally, I almost always use Eco mode because i use reverb for sound design and I like the weird metallic sound it has.

I'm also really enjoying the Live 9 convolution reverb (via M4L). Very nice. I know Monolake also uses Altiverb but it's too expensive for me so I've never tried it.

I like live's reverb in eco mode for sound design, and the new convolution reverb for everything else.

[evangelink]

Machinedrum had a really good setting for the ABleton reverb in the project he released recently, sounds lush. Certainly made me want to use it again.

[chris vine]

I love the FREEZE button in Live's reverb

[d.reamonn]

I did an extensive test of a number of big name reverbs and Ableton's. Results are as follows:

112dB Redline Reverb
+ Compact, well organised interface.
- Dull sound
- Very limited
- Realtime automation of time/space produces glitches
- Relatively expensive

Verdict: Drab arse


2CAudio Aether
+ Nice tail sound
- Most settings unusable
- Overly complex
- The whole early reflection section just sound like artefacts to me
- Realtime automation of time/space produces glitches
- Shitty marketing (ER + LR ? "2 plugins-in-one")
- Relatively expensive

Verdict: Sweet arse


2CAudio Breeze
+ Nice tail sound
- Most settings unusable
- Very limited
- The whole early reflection section just sound like artefacts to me
- Realtime automation of time/space produces glitches
- Relatively expensive

Verdict: Baby arse


Ableton Reverb
+ Compact, well organised interface.
+ Cheap as fuck*
- Sounds like an emulation of space, rather than space itself.
- Realtime automation of time/space produces glitches
- Tastes like cardboard.

Verdict: Dry arse
*If u no pay for fuck


Rob Papen RP-Verb
+ Nice and shiny
+ Straightforward interface
+ Varied sound
+ Realtime automation of time/space produces whooshes and swoops
+ Envelopes that can modulate time/space
+ Distortion/Ensemble
+ Genuine "2 plugins-in-one" (RP-Delay)
+ Relatively inexpensive (for 2 plugins)

Verdict: Fabulous non-arse


ValhallaDSP ValhallaRoom
+ Sounds like space dust
+ Bargain price
- Sounds like space dust
- No low cut
- Pointlessly big interface

Verdict: Cheap arse


I tested some others too, but I can't remember them, so they must have been moderately inoffensive arse.

I also wanted to test Audio Damage's Eos, but since it is based on old code by the bloke from Valhalla, and since Chris don't do no demos, and since a cracked version of Eos is so very hard to find online, and since Chris is very mean to people who pirate his gear, I had to pass.


Conclusion: Happiness can be found here: http://www.robpapen.com/buy-rp-verb.html

[Russell Krauch]

I had a similar experience. I always dismissed Ableton's reverb but when I ignored the presets and screwed around with it some I got some reasonable results. I still use my Solid State Logic reverb most of the time though.

[donmich]

With the exception of evangelink It seems people are still reluctant to call it very nice or nice or good etc. We've got reasonable, fine, dry arse...

I think the sound that has haunted me over the years is a TC harware unit a friend of mine had (cant remember the model. Late 90's)
Given that I was moved to try it again by listening to Monolake, who for all I knew could have been using a Lex or at least a Lex plugin or Altiverb or whatever I'd say if you know how to work it, it sounds damn nice.

Now Im mainly talking halls and large spaces here - as Mihai says, with convolution reverb being an option I wouldnt bother with it (or any other algo verb for that matter) for accurate models of very real small spaces.

One verb Ive really been impressed by but havent bought yet is Softube's Tsar 1. Just hate iLok, but I might cave.

[donmich]

Synnack,

Does the new convolution have any modulation or "place around the room" code like Altiverb?

[crumhorn]

never bother with presets for anything like reverb.

There are hundreds of presets with largely unhelpful names to wade through looking for the right sound and only a dozen or so parameters to play with and you soon learn what they all do.

Creating your own settings is much quicker and more likely to get the result you are listening for.

[stringtapper]

I've been having a good time with Uhbik-A from Urs's Uhbik pack.

[donmich]

never bother with presets for anything like reverb.

There are hundreds of presets with largely unhelpful names to wade through looking for the right sound and only a dozen or so parameters to play with and you soon learn what they all do.

Creating your own settings is much quicker and more likely to get the result you are listening for.

Yeah. Usually i only run through them when evaluating a potential purchase under the assumption that the manufacturer thinks the presets best represent the product. Especially when there are many options. And for example IR libraries of classic reverb units usually only record the presets and alot of the time they sound good, like Samplicity.

If I cant find what Im looking for this way, then I start to invest time drilling down and designing from scratch with well reviewed products and so on down the line.

This unfortunately results in sleeping on certain products I might otherwise have liked, since, increasingly presets really suck. One of the worst companies for presets is FXpansion. Synth Squad, Tremor etc all had lousy presets but are great devices. Cypher for example had a really confounding interface and I think even the sound designers they got preset sounds from never read the manual and made a lot of shit sounds. All of the synths in Ableton have shit presets and so on down the line, so I never check presets on synths anymore. With many complex synths it can take a long time before I unearth hidden strengths, so I wish the companies cared more about presets (which I never use in my own music anyway but still).

I stopped checking presets on compressors of course a long time ago.

And no I never do with Reverbs now either. But there are many I passed on a while ago because of the presets which I havent gone back to. Aether was one. I couldnt hear what all the fuss was about by the presets and didnt feel like learning the interface just to see if I liked it. Now im really curious but have switched up to 64 bit and who knows how long they will take to get 64 bit for Mac?

[donmich]

I've been having a good time with Uhbik-A from Urs's Uhbik pack.

Right? Its actually very nice. Especially on U-he synths.

[login]

I think valhalla sounds way better

[synnack]

Synnack,

Does the new convolution have any modulation or "place around the room" code like Altiverb?

Yep.