Gay Forum Members

[regretfullySaid]

Do not accuse me of trolling. That is utter bullshit and you know it.

Yup. You made it clear. The cognizance of abstracts and contexts does not bode well for you.
The good news is is that it could be worse. We all have our quirks.

[H20nly]

H20. Please tell me specifically what is "side-show". The fact that I refuse to condemn gay pride parades? The fact that I quoted the arguments that gay Christians use against anti-gay Christians? Please tell us, specifically. Enlighten us with your vast knowledge and robust arguments. Leave out the random pictures of Parade of the Heifers - fun for all the family - pretending to be kids at a gay parade.

ok. BUT i'm not going to debate what i type in this post with you or anyone. so do us all a favor and either quote the whole thought (not just part of a sentence) or drop it.


firstly, you're even taking the photos out of context. it doesn't matter what the source of the photo is... i am not reading the websites they come from... i am borrowing images. so you can stop digging so hard for some kind of hidden meaning in the source URL. the images link/button in the google search results is as deep as it gets.

have a parade. have 100 parades. good on you or your gay friends and associates for getting out and about and making their presence and level of commitment known. the reason that i have posted pictures of children goes back to the public area sign i linked in the same post as the children at [various] parades. parades are held on public streets. tax funded public streets are not the place for us to wander about with our breasts, wee-wees and ass cheeks hanging out. regardless of insinuated purpose, religion, ethos, moral standing, ethnic background, sexual orientation, or any number of affiliations with groups of other human beings. if a person turns the corner of a public street with their small child and are met with naked or all but naked men and/or women it should not be the time to suddenly be forced to have a talk with them about sex and sexual persuasion. those types of strong sexual overtones are best left to the proper venues such as homes, apartments, bedrooms, nightclubs, designated areas (nude beaches for example), brothels, bath houses or any location where one knows that they should not wander in with their child if they hope to avoid shocking imagery and difficult questions. with respect to the gay community, why is it not okay to expect a level of respect for the surrounding community but okay to force sexuality upon all those who find themselves with a straight line of vision on those same public streets? if you and i were to whip our dicks out and go marching down the sidewalk we would be at the very least talked to about indecency by the local police. just because the police don't want a riot on their hands by intervening in what people are selfishly calling their right to free expression does not mean that the same goal cannot be accomplished clothed. are we/they fighting for gay rights or the right to be indecent in public? that implies that in order to be gay and proud you have to show the world your junk. i call bullshit.

next, leave Jesus out of it. that single verse you quoted being the basis for any type of argument is akin to the single verse in Genesis, 1:29 (loosely quoted from memory) "i have given you all the seed bearing plants and herbs", being the potheads biblical justification for smoking weed. for the vast majority of them, it also happens to be their entire repertoire of biblical knowledge and quotable text. if one plans to use the bible as the basis for their argument for or against something then one has chosen (willingly or not) to subject themselves to the entire book. i have read the bible, the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tao Te Ching and numerous other religious scriptures texts and subtext on more than one occasion (also not for academic credit) and it always amuses me when someone who hasn't even read those books thinks they actually have a leg to stand on by pulling a verse out of context. as if the Christians weren't bad enough about doing that with their own book they now have moved on to doing it to Muslims by removing context such as the fact that Mohammad's city may have been under siege when he wrote a verse*.

*layman version.

religion is born out of the arguing that arises regarding the various interpretations of a wise man's words and ways. Christ never said worship me and Mohammad never said idolize me.

that's it funken. if i would not have made the mistake of typing "oral sex parade" as a poor analogy you may have been typing "exactly" under quotes of my posts easily 10 pages ago. who knows what might have happened had i typed "pedophile pride parade"

i'm done. i don't care what you do or say, i will not discuss anything further about this in this thread. if you want to discuss religion, then by all means bring us a separate thread and maybe if i'm feeling the level of self loathing i clearly must be feeling to be typing again in this thread i will discuss it with you there. i refuse to continue to be made out to have some type phobias about groups of people that i am not only unafraid of, but that on some level i am [happily and meaningfully] affiliated with.

[Machinesworking]

Ah, cheers Ian. I just added a bit to the end, about atheism being cruel. What I mean is, trying to prove god does not exist removes a way (belief in religion) by which billions of people make their shitty lives more bearable.

I agree with that too - I think people are levelling a lot of blame at the door of religion for causing wars and strife over the years which is unjustified.

Religion has probably on balance historically made people's lives better, given them something to believe in (it's fucking miserable believing in nothing) and been an adjunct to political systems which allow people to co-operate and for society to thrive.

Most of the laws of a society are tightly bound to the religion of that country and most of the religions are broadly the same and there's a reason for that.

Societies that have nothing die out.

I think we all made out points ages ago on the issues here. Whether other people are willing to listen or give credit to those points is another story.

One thing I would like to know is how the fuck come people have to drag atheists through the mud every time religion is questioned? and I'm not talking about the strictly religious here. Atheists do not have more mental health problems, that is clear. It's also clear that some believe that they would have mental health issues if it weren't for religion. Here's the psychological viewpoint: people need a sense of belonging. It doesn't have to come from religion, it can come from art or science or a knitting club, anything that makes you feel like you're connected to the world. This is why religion has been the enemy of science and politics based on social equality, because they offer another way to feel "whole" for those that do not have a good sense of inner self.

Try being an atheist for awhile. You get attacked as soon as people know you're not a believer, by the pseudo religious new age "quantum mechanics will let us talk to god" people as well as the religious, and they always think you care that they're "spiritual".. I don't give a rat's ass, just stop trying to put faith into science and politics and I seriously couldn't give a fuck what you think.

[ian_halsall]

Ah, cheers Ian. I just added a bit to the end, about atheism being cruel. What I mean is, trying to prove god does not exist removes a way (belief in religion) by which billions of people make their shitty lives more bearable.

I agree with that too - I think people are levelling a lot of blame at the door of religion for causing wars and strife over the years which is unjustified.

Religion has probably on balance historically made people's lives better, given them something to believe in (it's fucking miserable believing in nothing) and been an adjunct to political systems which allow people to co-operate and for society to thrive.

Most of the laws of a society are tightly bound to the religion of that country and most of the religions are broadly the same and there's a reason for that.

Societies that have nothing die out.

I think we all made out points ages ago on the issues here. Whether other people are willing to listen or give credit to those points is another story.

One thing I would like to know is how the fuck come people have to drag atheists through the mud every time religion is questioned? and I'm not talking about the strictly religious here. Atheists do not have more mental health problems, that is clear. It's also clear that some believe that they would have mental health issues if it weren't for religion. Here's the psychological viewpoint: people need a sense of belonging. It doesn't have to come from religion, it can come from art or science or a knitting club, anything that makes you feel like you're connected to the world. This is why religion has been the enemy of science and politics based on social equality, because they offer another way to feel "whole" for those that do not have a good sense of inner self.

Try being an atheist for awhile. You get attacked as soon as people know you're not a believer, by the pseudo religious new age "quantum mechanics will let us talk to god" people as well as the religious, and they always think you care that they're "spiritual".. I don't give a rat's ass, just stop trying to put faith into science and politics and I seriously couldn't give a fuck what you think.

I used to be an atheist now I think I don't know anything - believing in God doesn't really answer any questions nor does atheism about where the Universe comes from or where consciousness comes from (which I believe is a probably more important question).

I gave up on Physics during my degree - I still completed it but I realised that nothing was going to answer what I wanted to know.

I even hate Richard Dawkins now - I loved him when I was 17.

[ian_halsall]

"I'm a believer" and "Son of a Preacher Man" - did you knowingly put those 2 song titles in there?

I hate those religious dicks that believe that all abortion is wrong and that abortion even after rape is wrong.

And that condoms are wrong

[regretfullySaid]

Atheism isn't about disproving god. It's not believing god exists because there's no proof.
If god were proven to exist, atheists would acknowledge it existence.
But as H2O pointed out, if we're going to focus on religion we should me a thread for it.
And as mich as I voiced my opinion about believing in superstitions, I can't hate and make a militant harsh judgement on every person who chooses to have that kind of faith. Meaning that i don't think of someone like that as subhuman or that different from myself. It's really the ugly parts that come from I've focused on.
And as silly as it may sound after all I've said, the rituals practiced by indigenous cultures like native americans and tribes in South America and Africa have always seemed more valid to me than going to church, where you just sit, listen and sing a little. In the former there's hardcore dancing, breathing, drumming, psychotropic ingestion, all those have a much more solid ground in effective "religious" experience, therapy and honoring of all life, no matter what size, than just sitting and talking about it and believing in it imo. There could be a great spirit, there could not. It makes no difference on my moral outlook or view of the world. Vida bela.
But again, if we're going to keep talking about it, let's move it to a dedicated thread.

[nathannn]

And that condoms are wrong

Condoms are wrong;
1. They look gross
2. Its like having a callus
3. There's to many to chose from so people just go with magnums for the ego boost
4. It kills the whole mood

[beats me]

Funny how the master of translating religious text passages into being accepting of gay people can only see one possible translation of my analogy, the worst possible translation that gay people are criminals.

Let me dial it back. Maybe I should have said a parade of black people on welfare. Being black on welfare isn't illegal and neither is being a drunk sex addicted exhibitionist but they are negative stereotypes that don't represent the majority of the culture. Only one of those groups takes that negative stereotype and turns it into a public spectacle that for many people may be their only window into that culture's lifestyle.

Personally I don't have a problem with gay people or the parade, but refusing to acknowledge the viewpoint I am sharing actually exists is just ignorant.

While we're at it, the 1% should have a parade where they make it rain pink slips while lighting cigars with 100 dollar bills. Anybody offended by that? Anybody?

[H20nly]

Funny how the master of translating religious text passages into being accepting of gay people can only see one possible translation of my analogy, the worst possible translation that gay people are criminals.

Let me dial it back. Maybe I should have said a parade of black people on welfare. Being black on welfare isn't illegal and neither is being a drunk sex addicted exhibitionist but they are negative stereotypes that don't represent the majority of the culture. Only one of those groups takes that negative stereotype and turns it into a public spectacle that for many people may be their only window into that culture's lifestyle.

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[Machinesworking]

The most succinct definition of atheism:

Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.

It's not the presence of belief. This is where agnostics (code for "spiritual but not religious"), and the religious get it all twisted.

This is why I don't care at all what you believe about the afterlife or the nature of the universe. I simply do not base my life on faith, that's not an agenda, or a threat to your beliefs.

My dad is a preacher. You say you are an atheist. How come you have more of a problem with my view than my dad does?

Because you think atheism is a threat enough to try to tear it down by bringing in fallacious arguments like this:

Atheism tries to prove god does not exist.

Even Dawkins doesn't argue against gods existence, (this is kind of impossible to an atheist, again it's an absence of belief) but against the belief that he does.Modern atheists are trying to prove that religion is unnecessary, based on faith, and hinders science. I can go along with that, but even debating people who base their thinking on faith is absolutely pointless to me. I get why they believe it's a good fight (science being hindered by religion etc.), but it leads to the sort of beliefs about atheists you cary. That atheists are inherently fighting god..... I can't fight something I think is myth?? and I'm certainly not going to argue with someone who believes they've spoken to this deity? It's like kicking water uphill.

Again I really could give a rats ass what you believe about religion, it's not worth it to argue about things not based in hard reality, but on speculation and hope, but please do not make vast sweeping judgements about atheists because you met some militant ones. It's not your beliefs I care about it's your beliefs about my beliefs that get beyond annoying.

Seriously, think about it, it's very similar to the way christians act like they're being oppressed because they want to prevent gays from marrying or adopting etc. They say and enact hateful things towards another segment of society then act flabbergasted when people fight back. It's a classic straw man argument.

[regretfullySaid]

tax funded public streets are not the place for us to wander about with our breasts, wee-wees and ass cheeks hanging out. regardless of insinuated purpose, religion, ethos, moral standing, ethnic background, sexual orientation, or any number of affiliations with groups of other human beings.

That's a very valid point, but also, why bring your kids to a parade when you know that's going to be there?

If you want to continue religious discussion I just wanted to humor keeping things OT so here viewtopic.php?f=40&t=188605&p=1469667#p1469667 though the only thing I had left at this point was show some links

[footsy]

This has turned into the gayest conversation ever........

[regretfullySaid]

Almost said that myself, on the first page...

[Machinesworking]

tax funded public streets are not the place for us to wander about with our breasts, wee-wees and ass cheeks hanging out. regardless of insinuated purpose, religion, ethos, moral standing, ethnic background, sexual orientation, or any number of affiliations with groups of other human beings.

That's a very valid point, but also, why bring your kids to a parade when you know that's going to be there?

Um, it's not. IMO if the KKK and Nazis can march, if parades can be had that are of a religious nature, then the gays can get naked for all I care. The straw man here is the "tax funded" part, I get no say on whether the Blue Angels bother the fuck out of my city every year wasting gas, and that! is tax funded!

To be an advocate for freedom isn't defined by what you believe is right, but by your advocating for the right of beliefs you don't agree with to exist.

[regretfullySaid]

Good point. I was shortsightedly fooled by the straw man.