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Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:57 am
by re:dream
I remember being in Britain during the height of thatcherism. It was pretty dire. The taste of right wing authoritarianism and narrow cultural hatred was in the air. Yes, the economy was moribund before she came in; she renewed it by unleashing the powers of full scale financialization; that brought in a tsunami of money out of which a small layer of society got much much richer; but the tide is going out again and the British economy is pretty much on the road to nowehere as far as I can see. Tony Blair took over where Thatcher left off (in many ways he was the best Tory prime Minister Britain ever had); and the unchecked idiocy and venality of the banking sector has blasted a hole in what was left of the infrastructure for sensible social policy. It's a dire situation and I feel sorry for anyone in Britain who is in the poor and vulnerable sectors of the population.
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:14 am
by d.reamonn
The Finn wrote:I remember being in Britain during the height of thatcherism. It was pretty dire. The taste of right wing authoritarianism and narrow cultural hatred was in the air. Yes, the economy was moribund before she came in; she renewed it by unleashing the powers of full scale financialization; that brought in a tsunami of money out of which a small layer of society got much much richer; but the tide is going out again and the British economy is pretty much on the road to nowehere as far as I can see. Tony Blair took over where Thatcher left off (in many ways he was the best Tory prime Minister Britain ever had); and the unchecked idiocy and venality of the banking sector has blasted a hole in what was left of the infrastructure for sensible social policy. It's a dire situation and I feel sorry for anyone in Britain who is in the poor and vulnerable sectors of the population.
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Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:08 pm
by re:dream
she's a honey.
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:40 pm
by fuzzyhead
LoopStationZebra wrote:Yeah, the Punks in 77 were pissed because things were so rosy in Britain under Labour and everyone was living in happy happy utopia land.
omfg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwnkFlVRCZc
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:23 pm
by LoopStationZebra
The Finn wrote:sensible social policy.
By which of course you mean:
1. Increasing the welfare state even though you've got no money to do so.
2. Driving the last bit of wealth out of Britain as jobs/manufacturing are shipped EVEN FASTER to China and India.
3. Formally privatized industries are again made public even though there's no money to do so.
4. Initiate even HIGHER taxes and therefore generate an anti growth climate.
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:38 pm
by d.reamonn
LoopStationZebra wrote:The Finn wrote:sensible social policy.
By which of course you mean:
1. Increasing the welfare state even though you've got no money to do so.
2. Driving the last bit of wealth out of Britain as jobs/manufacturing are shipped EVEN FASTER to China and India.
3. Formally privatized industries are again made public even though there's no money to do so.
4. Initiate even HIGHER taxes and therefore generate an anti growth climate.
So long as he's getting laid.
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:49 pm
by LoopStationZebra
I mean, there's an easy way to get that Utopian Social State whereby you've got free healthcare and a job for life and whatnot:
Model Britain after China and pay your workers about $1 per day for 80 hour work weeks. The State than rakes in huge amounts of dollars and you get all the free social services you need. Just like China: no one will own a home and everyone will be back to living in wretched Tower Blocks but hey....at least there would be a Sensible Social Policy.
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:59 pm
by H20nly
think of all the petrol the postal service could save!
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:57 pm
by earthloop
LoopStationZebra wrote:I mean, there's an easy way to get that Utopian Social State whereby you've got free healthcare and a job for life and whatnot:
Model Britain after China and pay your workers about $1 per day for 80 hour work weeks. The State than rakes in huge amounts of dollars and you get all the free social services you need. Just like China: no one will own a home and everyone will be back to living in wretched Tower Blocks but hey....at least there would be a Sensible Social Policy.
...or, you could just print more money!
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:10 pm
by andydes
LoopStationZebra wrote:The Finn wrote:sensible social policy.
By which of course you mean:
1. Increasing the welfare state even though you've got no money to do so.
2. Driving the last bit of wealth out of Britain as jobs/manufacturing are shipped EVEN FASTER to China and India.
3. Formally privatized industries are again made public even though there's no money to do so.
4. Initiate even HIGHER taxes and therefore generate an anti growth climate.
No, he said sensible. Your posts are often along the lines of "if you think x is bad, then you must be in favour of y and z"
This is where the left/right thing is fucked up. Thatcher has her own "ism". That should say enough. An ism is based on ideology, not looking at the reality of a situation and making a reasoned decision.
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:04 pm
by LoopStationZebra
And I'm saying that 'sensible' to the Left = Unfettered Socialism.
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:07 pm
by LoopStationZebra
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:42 pm
by andydes
LoopStationZebra wrote:And I'm saying that 'sensible' to the Left = Unfettered Socialism.
Oh, come on. I've managed to coax a decent discussion out of you before. I know you've got more to say. But you do like your cheap shots. Like when any American says anything a bit lefty you have to wade in with a
"drones, zomg.
"
At least try to keep it original.
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:44 pm
by andydes
Oh, and for all the Thatcher haters, don't celebrate. Her death will only unit the Tories.
Re: Margaret. (Or, Elvis got his wish.)
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:46 am
by Machinesworking
LoopStationZebra wrote:And I'm saying that 'sensible' to the Left = Unfettered Socialism.
And sensible to the right is unfettered capitalism.
Both IMO leed to tyranny, depends on what kind of tyranny you want...
Both are guilty of allowing for total state control, IE the Soviet republic and Nazi reign.
IMO privatizing public works like electricity has been proven to be a mistake ala Enron.
The main problem with both private and public control of necessities of life is accountability, there isn't much if any.
We protect our new autocrats whether they come from corporations or governments, because they own the government, and we're well taken care of pets.