Ableton Forum

I've been kicking this idea around for a while and am finally settling on a design for a controller that I'm going to build. I am finishing the PCB design and before I have it printed I want to gauge the interest of other people to see if I should just make one or two prototypes for myself, or if I should make a run of 50 or so. Here are the details:

• * Arduino (Teensy) based, fully programmable and open source
  * USB powered, shows up as a standard MIDI port on Mac/PC
  * 16 RGB Buttons are rubber, from Livid instruments (small) but closer together
  * Encoders are pushbutton, and could be ordered in any combination of smooth/detented
  * 40x2 character LCD, 5x2 characters per encoder/button row
  * Possibility of adding four expansion inputs for external buttons or knobs
  * Target sell price of $179 for a kit, $250 for an assembled unit (compared to a novation compact at $399)

Planned software support:

• * Ableton device/chain/mixer controller (ala Novation)
  * Mackie Control HUI
  * Standard MIDI controller
  * The ability to quickly switch between and blend these layers

...and of course it's completely programmable in C. Want OSC? DMX? Load the source into Arduino and add the library, modify the code as you need and go. I've tried to lay it out in such a way that it's very customizable, and has lots of visual feedback. I've found that the problem with many controllers is that they do 90% of what I want, but there's always something they miss. Maybe a function is latching instead of momentary, or maybe you want one button to modify what all of the encoders do. Or maybe you want the encoders to completely change their function when you push them down. Also it's always hard to know what the controller is doing, which is why the LCD and RGB buttons were a must. I want to be able to color code and label all of my functions and layers.

I'd love to know what you folks think. Is this useful/cool?

the rotary encoders are too close to each other if you want to make it a performance tool.
Next big thing is to include a good X_Y expressive pad...( to my humble advice)
a cross fader would probably have deejays interested too.
A ribbon strip controller at the bottom would be cool also.

hm, 9.5 inch equals approx. 24 cm, if i am no mistaken. seems like a more than generous size for fitting 8 encoders in a row. maybe those buttons in the sketchup are a little out of scale?

i like the form factor and the push encoders. xy pad is on my ipad. what i miss is physical feedback.

unfortunately i have no idea about coding (but about 3D modelling ), but a fully coded device for ableton (and international availability) would get me interested i think.

maybe u should work out ur prototype first. if u come up with pics of a fully working device ppl gonna pm u like crazy. i remember a similar very minimalistic DIY midi controller here on the board that lots of people seemed to want to buy from the developer.

edit: oh, and i love the fact that theres a button under each encoder. my roland a300pro has a similar layout, its perfect to switch FX on and off and tweak away with the encoder. strangely not a lot of midi controllers offer this kind of layout.

good idea mate!

regarding this:

* Possibility of adding four expansion inputs for external buttons or knobs

what about a fader box as a module? I already have plenty of knobs (novation nocturn) and pads (launchpad, maschine)
i'd love a slim fader box. faders at least 8 cm long.

Sounds like a cool idea and with what people are suggesting. Nice about open source and programmable (for those that code in compiled languages).

The comment about international availability - wouldn't that require UL certification or something along those lines in order to be able to ship/sell outside the US? That may increase price being a smaller developer/inventor no? Just curious if that had been taken into account if this gets a ton of interest.

darkenedsoul wrote:
The comment about international availability - wouldn't that require UL certification or something along those lines in order to be able to ship/sell outside the US? That may increase price being a smaller developer/inventor no? Just curious if that had been taken into account if this gets a ton of interest.

being located in China this is always the first thing that pops up in my mind when new cool things come out. "can i get it here?". chroma caps in china? forget it!

didnt mean that op need to have a business plan before he can assemble a prototype lol. it was more a " i like it but i cant promise that i am in" - type of comment.

h3rtz wrote:hm, 9.5 inch equals approx. 24 cm, if i am no mistaken. seems like a more than generous size for fitting 8 encoders in a row. maybe those buttons in the sketchup are a little out of scale?

The limit on the spacing of the encoders comes from the size of the LCD. It's 40x2 characters, and I haven't been able to find a larger one. So to do 8 encoders, they have to be spaced that way, the only alternative is to do fewer encoders. Everything in the sketchup model is to scale and drawn per the specification sheets provided from the manufacturers, if you remove the layers in that image the internal components are all present, including LEDs, buttons, encoders, and circuit board.

störgeräusche wrote:* Possibility of adding four expansion inputs for external buttons or knobs

what about a fader box as a module? I already have plenty of knobs (novation nocturn) and pads (launchpad, maschine)
i'd love a slim fader box. faders at least 8 cm long.

Yes you could build any kind of expansion you wanted, faders are just slide potentiometers and function the same electrically as knobs. The key here is that YOU would decide what you want, and YOU would build it.

darkenedsoul wrote:The comment about international availability - wouldn't that require UL certification or something along those lines in order to be able to ship/sell outside the US? That may increase price being a smaller developer/inventor no? Just curious if that had been taken into account if this gets a ton of interest.

I have a day job and this isn't a business for me, it's a hobby and artistic outlet. My last project, http://www.colorsynth.com, so far has shipped over a hundred units, many outside of the US. So yes if you're in China we can probably work something out.

Right now my goal is to gauge interest so I can decide if I'm going to order 3 circuit boards, or a hundred. I'll definitely build a working version and show it off before taking any orders.

count me in!

been waiting for something like this for a long long time,
a controller with encoders and display feedback that work like mcu or novation automatically mapped thru control surfaces setup in ableton

the 8 button underneath the encoders seem perfect for quick access to parameter banks (if they could have some sort of light feedback would be even cooler), some sort of next device, previous device buttons would be cool too and surelly a dedicated lock/unlock to device button would be a good control to have

what would the rest of the encoders do in your idea, may i ask ?

The buttons underneath the encoders are RGB LED, so there's plenty of feedback.

I plan on making the far left encoder for navigating different functions of the controller (selecting between mackie hui, ableton device, synth control, etc) as well as the other parameters (LED brightness, etc). The four buttons underneath could be functions for changing what the 8 encoders do (ie for Mackie Hui, selecting between mute, solo, record, and ch select). Press and release and all the encoders change to that function. Press and hold, then push the encoder of the channel(s) you want to have that function. And then the button below that encoder changes color to match (blue for solo, red for record arm etc). This way you can blend your layers but know exactly what each function does.

The far right controller could be a master fader, and perhaps when you push the encoder down it becomes a group control for just the 8 channels (or device parameters) for the 8 encoders you're working on. The four buttons below could be banking controls, either by channel or in groups of 8.

But the beauty is, if you don't like the way I've laid it out, you can pull up the code and modify it to do what you want.

sounds good

i obviously had other ideas in mind as i was reading your description but as long as it is possible to tweak ableton midi remote control scripts all should be fine, cant wait to see what u come up with:)

ps: i had actually considered getting a cheap novation sl compact on ebay and just try to tore it apart to keep only the encoders + display section + relevant button controls

This is exactly what i want. And I too have thought about getting a Remote sl just for the lcd feedback, but it just seems silly.

How about using smaller encoder caps? Or two displays?

sadly i never heard back from the post author and he also never replied to pvt messages about

as a fun sync fact, last week i finally got a used remote sl compact on ebay and tore it down (here is a initial crappy pic: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater),
now i am just waiting for find someone decent that works with metal to make a proper enclosure for it

however i already noticed some flaws:
- of course i dont have all the control i really wanted outside of controlling plugins;
- resolution is not ideal (not as fine as i wish it would be when turning encoders slowly);
- i also could not get it to be as small as i would like it to be, i wanted to get rid of the drum pads but is is all the same logic board so i did not want to risk cutting it (i ll do it if i get another one, prefrably a cheap one with broken keyboard or something like that);
- but most of all the encoders are not real encoders, or at least they dont behave as so when using the ableton automap template , following instrucions on the sl installation they recommend value pickup mode, wich is not ideal at all

so i know i already want to move to next stage and no manufacturer seem to care for a controller like this, damn, i would love to have a push mini or whatever, something without all the pads and more focused on tracks and device control

i would still be interested in the controller this post is all about, of course