Advanced scene launching

[supamonsta]

You didn't understand my question (and that of many, many others that want this feature). The workarounds are all awkward, use up valuable screen space, and require one to jump through ridiculous hoops to program many different scenarios that would be ridiculously easy if only we could choose which clips were launched for a given scene.

If you don't understand the issue, then all I can say is that you haven't worked live gigs with more than, say 10 scenes with possibly different time signature and/or tempo changes that have to be changed in the heat of battle..

Of course, if all you do is 4/4 at 85 bpm, it may not be an issue for you....

It is simply a really,really stupid part of the (otherwise brilliant) design, and obviously important to any working musician......

I don't understand the issue because of 2 things :

1) you don't really explain it, and the way you explain it leads me to my own understanding of the problem

2) I play live since 10 years with more than 16 tracks and up to 100 scenes for a live set, now with a friend with a dual launchpad-code-nanokontrol-lv2 setup for live shows, and I never thought there were an issue somewhere, follow actions, stop buttons/activation, clip or slot midi triggering, scene triggering, and so on, have always been fine to my own needs, so I'm interested and trying to help/or understand

so

1) you try to help me understand your issue, or decently ignore me, or

2) you just don't post on a forum only to insult people trying to interest your point...

cheers

[Buleriachk]

When you click on a scene that specifies tempo and time signature, you shouldn't have to launch every frikken clip in the row. It is as simple as that. Anything else is a stupid, awkward, and unnecessary runaround....

There are many, many scenarios. Here's just one of them:

I have 100 4/4 clips in a track. I have 100 3/4 clips in a second track.
I have 25 scenes that use one or the other, but NOT both. At different tempos...
I want to select time signature for any combo by my scene launch.
I only have 5 scenes on my APC40, and I have to do this in the heat of battle, instantaneously.

You figure it out. It isn't hard. Unless you only work in 4/4 at 85 bpm, like I said....
(and I, by no means, am not the only one who understands the issue....)

Or another example:

I have a track of 100 bass loops I want to choose from
I have a track of 100 drum fills I want to choose from
I have a track of 100 drum loops I want to choose from
I have a track of 100 melodic lines I want to choose from
I have another track of 100 melodic lines I want to choose from.

In particular, I don't want a drum loop and a fill to start at the same time for ANY of the 100 rows...
I don't want two melodic lines to start at the same time......

I don't want any row to start all at once, and I want to add from wherever in another track I want,.
Is this SO hard to understand?

And I could go on and on, and I'm sure others could too....

[Tone Deft]

simple issue, no reason to be a dick about it.

<pedantic paragraph ahead, just fleshing this out..>
in the bigger picture a scene is a collection of sounds. I think when they developed Live they went with that concept. users would put a hodge podge of clips together, play around, find clips that work together, users would then capture those clips into a new scene. once they got the scenes together they'd sketch out a song and put the details together in Arrange view.

now years later users are doing more detailed work with scenes and want that feature expanded upon.

to me this is a usual complaint from people new to the software, you learn that a scene with 5 clips and the same scene with 4 added clips are different scenes. when I get to the point that scene detail is cluttering my set I know it's time to move to Arrange view.

BUT there are users that do full performances from Session view, so making scenes more of a performance feature is becoming relevant.

removing the play button from clips doesn't seem right. you still want to play the clip after the scene launches. maybe move the play icon on the clip to the other side of the clip?

this could get traction if people aren't put off by the attitude.

[Buleriachk]

We've been asking for this for a long time. Some users are satisfied with Ableton (I was, until I ran into the stone walls). Again, I am not the only one, but I fail to understand why "launch clip with scene (yes/no)" is so hard to understand or implement.

Like I said, if you only do 4/4 at 85 bpm, you may not need it....

I may be loud, but I'm right. It is a dirty, dangerous job, but somebody has to do it..... I really feel Ableton should have programmed this feature from version 1 (which I own - and all the way up)....

What the heck is a Launchpad for if not for session view performance with clips? (Or Push, come to think of it)?

[fishmonkey]

yeah, there are definitely situations where being able to not fire all tracks on scene launch would make things easier.

i'm sure the Abes understand that too. my guess is that they haven't added the feature yet because there is something about their underlying code that makes it awkward to implement.

ranting and insulting others is ugly behaviour though.

[Buleriachk]

If you think I'm insulting someone, then you haven't been on very many forums that I have...
I haven't called anyone any names, I have just spoken truth.........

(If people had tried to do the things I suggested, they would have run into the same walls. And sometimes these same people are trying to tell me that there is no issue, that I just don't know yet about the "stop" button yet. I even tried to use Clyphx to do workaround, but the Live Object Model doesn't provide a trigger mode to let you do that. And it is just a Boolean, for chrissakes...)

ranting and insulting others is ugly behaviour though.

[Tone Deft]

yeah, there are definitely situations where being able to not fire all tracks on scene launch would make things easier.

i'm sure the Abes understand that too. my guess is that they haven't added the feature yet because there is something about their underlying code that makes it awkward to implement.

or they just don't see the need for it. overall, I agree.

users post on here all the time "THIS IS SO OBVIOUS AND EASY TO CODE, WHY WON'T THEY DO THIS!!!!!!" that's not how to get stuff done. next time you want a new feature considered, try hosting a polite entertaining thread. this is bullshit.

Like I said, if you only do 4/4 at 85 bpm, you may not need it....

that's a really stupid thing to write. you think it's an insult but it only makes you look bad.

[Buleriachk]

Like I said, if you only do 4/4 at 85 bpm, you may not need it....

that's a really stupid thing to write. you think it's an insult but it only makes you look bad.

It is not stupid, not an insult, and it is truth. Think about it...

[fishmonkey]

If you think I'm insulting someone, then you haven't been on very many forums that I have...
I haven't called anyone any names, I have just spoken truth.........

(If people had tried to do the things I suggested, they would have run into the same walls. And sometimes these same people are trying to tell me that there is no issue, that I just don't know yet about the "stop" button yet. I even tried to use Clyphx to do workaround, but the Live Object Model doesn't provide a trigger mode to let you do that. And it is just a Boolean, for chrissakes...)

ranting and insulting others is ugly behaviour though.

maybe you need to take a step back? you are posting in the general Music & Production forum. it's not actually a feature request forum. people are commenting, some understand, some don't, some care, some don't. that's life, right?

you aren't helping your feature request cause by getting people offside and insulting them. and yes, you have been insulting people with your my-brain-is-bigger-than-yours-i'm-a-real-musician-so-shut-the-fuck-up-attitude. being right doesn't give you the right to be a prick.

[Buleriachk]

All I want to be able to do is use different time signatures and tempos with freely chosen clips in session mode with my Launchpad.

If some of you have tender sensibilities and feel insulted, maybe it will help you along to try to keep telling us (hey, or me) we don't have an issue, that it is just our imagination, and can be solved easily with any of the proposed off the shelf solutions (like the "stop" button).

If I have to be point man on this, I accept the heat and responsibility. I would far rather have a solution from Ableton and let you go on about your business, tender feelings unmolested.... But tender pleading to Ableton has done nothing, for any number of years, so I'll keep soldiering on....

But again, I haven't insulted anyone, just spoken truth.... sorry if it hurts....
and some of you are just beginning this fight... just beginning to understand the issue.
If you want to take over, well and good, but leave the focus on Ableton, not on me...

Life is hard, but short...

BTW, this has been a feature request for a LONG time....

Sheesh, and I didn't even START this thread.......

[fishmonkey]

If I have to be point man on this, I accept the heat and responsibility. I would far rather have a solution from Ableton and let you go on about your business, tender feelings unmolested.... But tender pleading to Ableton has done nothing, for any number of years, so I'll keep soldiering on....

Life is hard, but short...

i think you've watched too many Hollywood war movies.

carry on.

[Tone Deft]

[Buleriachk]

Maybe so, but you shouldn't jump into any wars you don't want to fight.....
And I'm 72 and fighting my last war and don't have time for bullshit....

If I have to be point man on this, I accept the heat and responsibility. I would far rather have a solution from Ableton and let you go on about your business, tender feelings unmolested.... But tender pleading to Ableton has done nothing, for any number of years, so I'll keep soldiering on....

Life is hard, but short...

i think you've watched too many Hollywood war movies.

carry on.

[fishmonkey]

Maybe so, but you shouldn't jump into any wars you don't want to fight.....
And I'm 72 and fighting my last war and don't have time for bullshit....

If I have to be point man on this, I accept the heat and responsibility. I would far rather have a solution from Ableton and let you go on about your business, tender feelings unmolested.... But tender pleading to Ableton has done nothing, for any number of years, so I'll keep soldiering on....

Life is hard, but short...

i think you've watched too many Hollywood war movies.

carry on.

well if i was 72 i'd find some better things to do than waste my energy arguing with random strangers on the internet about DAW features.

anyway, you've inspired me to get off this forum and do something constructive, so thank you for that.

good luck with the war.

[Tone Deft]

fishmonkey, reader of minds.