Ableton Forum

[*]I'm an experienced cubase user and are contemplating making the switch to Ableton. Currently I have a few workfllow issues I have not been able to figure out and have not been able to find any info on workarounds, I realize some or all of these are wishlist features but I thought i'd post here and find out how more advanced users are getting around these problems efficiently in live:

1. I rely heavily on having none continous regions layed out across an arrangement that all mimic what any of the other linked regions is doing. In Cubase you can chop audio then with "events to part" be ale to create a region for those edits that you can then clone all over my arrangement and when further edits are necesary (which almost always they are) I just have to edit one region and all other linked files follow. I understand that in live's session page you can treat clips and use follow action to achieve similar results but once in arrange view the content editing either in sample regions or in chopped midi regions becomes independent of the rest of the arrangement and a lot more time consuming to work with.

2. Automation dots cannot be "lasoed" and adjusted based on value instead of graphically selecting everything in time. So if I just want the tops of a triangle automation pattern as to adjust the range of modulation I have not been able to figure this one out in live either.

3. Any way to record the launch of clips or scenes through midi. Not capture the events that get triggered into arrange mode which I know is a big feature of lives but actually capture the midi that can launch them allowing me to keep working the clips while being able to have a "pattern mode" sequence in the arrangement.

4. No key command for soloing selected tracks or regions if I am not using a controller?

Any tips you guys have on these issues would be greatly appreciated!

olddognewtricks wrote:[*]I'm an experienced cubase user and are contemplating making the switch to Ableton. Currently I have a few workfllow issues I have not been able to figure out and have not been able to find any info on workarounds, I realize some or all of these are wishlist features but I thought i'd post here and find out how more advanced users are getting around these problems efficiently in live:

1. I rely heavily on having none continous regions layed out across an arrangement that all mimic what any of the other linked regions is doing. In Cubase you can chop audio then with "events to part" be ale to create a region for those edits that you can then clone all over my arrangement and when further edits are necesary (which almost always they are) I just have to edit one region and all other linked files follow. I understand that in live's session page you can treat clips and use follow action to achieve similar results but once in arrange view the content editing either in sample regions or in chopped midi regions becomes independent of the rest of the arrangement and a lot more time consuming to work with.

2. Automation dots cannot be "lasoed" and adjusted based on value instead of graphically selecting everything in time. So if I just want the tops of a triangle automation pattern as to adjust the range of modulation I have not been able to figure this one out in live either.

3. Any way to record the launch of clips or scenes through midi. Not capture the events that get triggered into arrange mode which I know is a big feature of lives but actually capture the midi that can launch them allowing me to keep working the clips while being able to have a "pattern mode" sequence in the arrangement.

4. No key command for soloing selected tracks or regions if I am not using a controller?

Any tips you guys have on these issues would be greatly appreciated!

Don't know but if you have Max 4 Live, I think you can key bind some extra things with user written Max scripts.

Also many other users use auxiliary key binding programs to extend some of Abletons key binding shortcomings.

Live doesn't have alias. You need to edit all region, or delete the others and copy&paste all over again.

Thx for the replies guys, yea it seems its just not an editing program as much as it is a performance program. still think these few improvements don't seem to be outrageous to add and would significantly improve its editing workflow. Maybe in a new version, keeping fingers crossed

olddognewtricks wrote:Thx for the replies guys, yea it seems its just not an editing program as much as it is a performance program. still think these few improvements don't seem to be outrageous to add and would significantly improve its editing workflow. Maybe in a new version, keeping fingers crossed

For obscure but in your team on thhe "producer killer app" being Cubase or Ableton Suite : OK I finally catched a Cubase 6 copy (just don't wan't to > 7 or maybe I just don't have the time).

With AS9 a producer will have a finished "material" merely quickly if experienced and "Abe's rexflex & recurring gestures" aware of... Just add some VSTs and let the sequen-compo-perfo-samplo-synthesizo-ware (jeeez, like if Suite was the "serious, really" opposite software of FL Studio that I seriously can't use anymore as a "DAW" (fixes every week, do everything until ... the next week to patch what you didn't were able to end other than in a "Error 0x if not just close/forget your work to be radically fun but also totally absent from the "pro" playground... Even if many many MANY including me uses it as a "fuck I know FL will make that stuff so quick & >>> casual software starting on an "maybe not pro but surely not amateur" level.

As an ex-user restarting with Cubase indeed it's more a question of meticulous & time eating composition to achieve what only real skilled musicians can create as a whole from nothing in their brain and know exatly what they want or not or why not ...

As a Suite 8 & 9 user ; because of an "accident" making me like a dumbass with only kb+mouse to perform I would say... My personals are made with Suite 9 ; my serious and sometimes "semi-retired pro" from live mashups in Paris DEFINITLY LOVE Suite 8 Box + my add-ons (the two Retro-Synths, I got both before 9) : SUITE 8.1.4 + MFL 32-bit, no mention about the VSTs and other add-ins I use.

So, if you are a really meticulous producer and composer I may have say the contrary I begin to re-like Cubase more than expected, even have Cubasis on my iPad 4 ...

To sum up we have two serious but radically different companies I IMO wouldn't consider as sharing the same user base, skill and musical level, a little metaphor could be i.e. I'm unable to draw ANYTHING, or repair even simple morotized gears, some have it some won't never have it.

But man, after this praise on Steinberg (they imposed VST before Abe was an idea, to exagerate a little because it's not true if I remember) : since the Suite + Max (two opposites I never thought them being integrated so quickly, see S8/MFL 32-bit above it's rock-solid), maybe Ableton was unable to be "on time" ; Push, complaints about "Live 4 and Live 8 side by side = same interface, since the first in fact, so this browser "issue" for some people confusing browser and index (Live 9's browser is perfect ; if not just work with its double-columns look minimized more like on Live 8 & less...

However if Ableton succeeds in their (IMO they don't sleep or cover their eyes/ears/mouths AT ALL, Cubase and its fucking USB shit could become obsolete products by design, because they didn't wanted to change anything, they just did that "SONY-shit" : say "so now, VST to be a standard, no care about investors it's only money and money... is just a shitty TOOL not a goal (again IMO).

BTW, how many guys here could answer me that Ableton earns LOTS OF $$$ each second ?!

9 will be awesome. Today, 8.4.1 32-bit with MFL is just perfect for almost everything expeting "some special tracks or task where a concurrent is needed"...

The last major point for Ableton : their "on stage" famous users perform only with Live (8 as I didn't have seen anyone on-stage with 9 running). For instance, deadmau5 or Duda or Daft Punk... They use Cubase in studio time and Live with just a little controlling gear like a DJM-800 custom-firmware of course (the two formers indeed worked on a tweak for this table with Pioneer's engineers, go verify I never give references Google is better than me) >>> Live + musical high-level grade + computers high-level of mastering both soft & hardware equals the three artists above using just : Live 8 + 1 iPad 2 & Lemur /template self-made + sometimes a piece of gear + Max ... For Alive 2007 most of the shows were done with two pairs of legacy Lemur >>> this means Live is more for "computer friends" than "needs strict rock-solid & no-revolutions in the air because the job asks for other tools...

End of that long and stupid opinion sharing ; I really don't worry for Ableton, not for Steinberg too.

EACH so called "DAW" (therefore mistaken as doing the same tools) MUST someday be precisely declared as "for performiers" or more "producers" or -PA and sound design" or "amateur work" ...

Thx for your reply Blendton :]

Blenton, tes tentatives de tej analytiques laissent un poco à enfiler.

La plume de lachatatamère est sur le bureau de lachatatapute.

Vive cette salope d'Hollande.

Phrase aléatoire for la perte.

Car pomme de terre.

UUUHMM.... WHAT? LOL

olddognewtricks wrote:UUUHMM.... WHAT? LOL

Don't worry bro Steve Ballmer has some problems to consider my writing style and english not native writings as being readable. It was off-topic he just joked at me ... and I liked it in fact.

Was my long post so weird ?!


Kind regards.

All good, any info is welcomed and you did have some valid points in my opinion. from what I've been able to gather so far from video tutorials and watching people work in live, everyone has just gotten used to flying the mouse around all over the screen to produce their music and I'm mainly talking about the process after you capture your initial performances in the session page. I come from protools key command oriented editing NOT flying your mouse everywhere for every little thing you need done. to me its a big distraction and antiquated way of working..