Ableton Forum

Hi Guys,

Currently, I am using Ableton Live 9 and I just started using ozone 5 Advanced for my mastering needs. However, while listening to my mix with the stereo image, I noticed that most of my syns made with NI Massive are going into the -1 region of the vectorscope. It is clearly phasing and I would like to ask how would you fix this issue? I've tried removing the reverb, chorus etc but still no good.

In addition, am I right to say that since low frequencies consist of my bass, sub and kick drums, I should lower them all to -100% in the stereo imager to make them sit right in the middle and in mono? Is this the right practice I'm doing?

Hope to hear from you soon. Cheers.

Leo

you'll need to check the phase correlation of some of your tracks against each other..
for instance .. if your bass and synths are "layered".. they could be colliding...you'll need to figure out what's not working well together..
if you can't do it by ear.. use a phase correlation meter.

then use phase-shift.. (or selective phase shift for a certain freq band)..

Thanks for the quick reply. I know where the phase correlation meter is in ozone 5, but is there a phase-shift feature in there too that I can use? Also am I missing something here? How come when I test certain tracks by Skrillex and some Electro House producers, certain parts of their tracks are dipping big time into the -1 region. I heard that dipping there can be problematic and cause your instruments to sound weak or disappear when played back with club speakers in mono. So how come these commercial releases are dipping in it? Cheers

you'd need to phase shift on individual tracks (not the master)
you can use Lives' 'Utility'...

on the correlation meter.. -1 usually means that there is no correlation whatsoever (L and R are completely different signals...)
this doesn't mean that they're phasing...

+1 means Mono ...meaning (L...R have the same exact content)

once again.. you'll need to check different tracks together.. and see how they phase correlate...
only after you've done that.. you can check the whole mix...
some people sum to mono.. to see that no content is lost

Because mono club sound systems are pretty rare these days, and 99.99% of the people who listen to their songs won't be a club anyway.

Nothing wrong with some sounds not being totally in mono in your song, which is what would happen if everything was +1.

searched quickly for some video explanations

http://youtu.be/_N0ER4A73QE

http://youtu.be/8NZlX3vfeqU

Thanks 3dot. I've used the utility and inverse phase various samples to check and I've tried phase rotation but all to no avail until I lowered band 2 width of the ozone 5 stereo imager which are the upper low frequencies by -40%. But when I do that, obviously I lose perceived volume and just doesn't sound that nice.

@Tarekith. Am I right to say that club and concert speakers are in mono due to the fact that everybody is standing at different parts of the venue and they need to hear a balanced mix wherever they go so it makes sense for them to be in mono?

@3dot. so are you saying that -1 region is still ok? I'm just trying to wrap my head around the concept cause I saw videos saying that "You need to fix your mix" when it dips into the -1 region.

Hell_Fire84 wrote:@Tarekith. Am I right to say that club and concert speakers are in mono due to the fact that everybody is standing at different parts of the venue and they need to hear a balanced mix wherever they go so it makes sense for them to be in mono?

Nope, sorry, that's not how it works.

My $.02, stop messing with the stereo imager in Ozone until you understand more about what the meters are telling you, and how to interpret them. One of the biggest issues I have to fix when mastering other people's tracks is when then make things too wide with stereo imagers. Here's a GREAT guide to using everything in Ozone with moderation, and what each control really is affecting in the real world:

http://downloads.izotope.com/guides/iZo ... hOzone.pdf

Hell_Fire84 wrote:Thanks 3dot. I've used the utility and inverse phase various samples to check and I've tried phase rotation but all to no avail until I lowered band 2 width of the ozone 5 stereo imager which are the upper low frequencies by -40%. But when I do that, obviously I lose perceived volume and just doesn't sound that nice.

@3dot. so are you saying that -1 region is still ok? I'm just trying to wrap my head around the concept cause I saw videos saying that "You need to fix your mix" when it dips into the -1 region.

if you are inverting phase on a wide band on the master.. you're still keeping the flawed relations (anti phase)...or even worsen the situation (liked you did and heard the loss of volume)
what you need to understand is that you need to compare your tracks against each other..
for instance.. the "thump" on your bass.. can be "working against" your kick drum..
broadly termed.. your bass wants to pull the speaker cone back ...while the kick wants to push it forward..
the conclusion of this pushin and pullin is that you lose volume...
now... if you would phase invert one of them.. they might be able to work together (both pushing)
an even better approach would be to phase invert ONLY the frequencies which are colliding...
for this you might want to use something called an "allpass filter" on one of the tracks..
now in the same mix.. your guitar strumming might be interfering with your cymbals "attack"..
you get the point....
in the electronic music world.. we tend to layer kicks... basses... etc..
these need to be checked against each other to figure out their correlation..

all that said..
sometimes phasing is a desired effect.. and may create pleasant "comb filters" to the sound..
sometimes it just sounds "right"

in reality.. all that I can say is use your ears...
if you are unfamiliar with how phasing sounds..
try and train your ears to understand...I'm guessing there are plentiful examples out there on the web

switching phase on the master track is rarely recommended..
if you need to switch phase on the master you're in a bad position..
as the master track is already "calculated" with the phasing problems summed and in place..

Also, keep in mind that having an uncorrelated signal (negative scale on the goniometer) is not neccesarily a bad thing! It just means that there's a difference in the left and right channels, which is EXACTLY what you'd expect for things like reverb and stereo delays.

Tarekith wrote:Also, keep in mind that having an uncorrelated signal (negative scale on the goniometer) is not neccesarily a bad thing! It just means that there's a difference in the left and right channels, which is EXACTLY what you'd expect for things like reverb and stereo delays.

yep...
going towards -1 would mean there is stereo happening
(stupid example: piano on the left and drums on the right..)

you could also use an M/S processor (like EQ8) to broadly monitor your Mid (In phase) and Side (the difference)
maybe check correlation of your Mid .. and then check the correlation with the rest of the signal...

another way would be to go back and forth between stereo and mono.. and listen to what element in the mix disappears/loses volume...
then phase invert that element.. or a part of it.

Or just turn that dumb meter off and keep writing music because 99% of the time people don't need to worry about this "issue" since it's not an issue. Useful for troubleshooting a problem, but not really something you need to pay attention to as a matter of course.

Just my $.02 though.

Fair enough thanks guys. From what I gathered so far and from what I tested with, most tracks seem to peak around -1 anyways especially Skrillex tracks and many electro tracks. So I'm gonna take what other people say who advice me to check my mixes with a grain of salt. I simply wanted to make my mixes sound good and nice both in mono and stereo. Ever since coming across this video bout the Beatles album in mono, I want my mixes to sound like this kind of level. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO3oZkaME6c