Considering buying... a few questions, though.

[chapelier fou]

i feel really limited by having just 8 visible tracks. Basically because i usually play instruments at the same time as i trigger and stop clips (and my live sessions are usually around 12 tracks). So i am thinking about workarounds. I'd be happy if someone could answers these questions :

Can you use 2 Push at the same time ?
How fast is it to display the 8 next tracks ? How convenient ? how many finger presses are required and is it okay with just one hand ? Even one finger or just the tip of my violin bow ?
Can you make that one specific pad triggers several clips (without grouping) ?
Have you ever experienced any crash or misbehavior ? (i am on mac)

Thank you !!!

[panten]

You can't run 2 versions of Push at the same time (yet?)

You can jump easily to the next 8 block in 2 ways.

• Hold Shift + press one of the arrow keys on Push.
• Hold Shift and the 8x8 grid will light up allowing you to quickly jump across to specific blocks. Each lit pad being a different 8x8 block.

The first example can be done with one hand


I lay my scenes out sensibly and can trigger those scenes with the side Scene selection buttons. No need for complicated setup.

Never had a crash.

[TomViolenz]

i feel really limited by having just 8 visible tracks. Basically because i usually play instruments at the same time as i trigger and stop clips (and my live sessions are usually around 12 tracks). So i am thinking about workarounds. I'd be happy if someone could answers these questions :

Can you use 2 Push at the same time ?
How fast is it to display the 8 next tracks ? How convenient ? how many finger presses are required and is it okay with just one hand ? Even one finger or just the tip of my violin bow ?
Can you make that one specific pad triggers several clips (without grouping) ?
Have you ever experienced any crash or misbehavior ? (i am on mac)

Thank you !!!

I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to do. Are you asking about triggering clips? Then I would say yes you can have 2 controllers controlling 2 different red boxes (Having two Push for this would be overkill though, just get a launchpad in addition to Push) Moving the red box is pretty fast on Push because you have the arrow buttons to do it.

Triggering several clips could be done by arranging the clips in scenes and using the scene launch buttons on the right to trigger them. Anything else would require you to either Midi assign the clip starts to a single button in User mode or use clyphx to set it up. (also in user mode via Midi, but this would be more elegant)

If you are talking about having control with the encoders over more than 8 tracks, then I don't know. Maybe ask this question again in the current APC40 and Push thread, as that seems to be the same situation.

[chapelier fou]

Thanks for the answer. This page suggests that several Pushes can be used at the same time, though : https://www.ableton.com/en/articles/push-general-qa/

[TomViolenz]

When using multiple Push devices on one computer, is it possible to lock one Push to certain parameters exclusively? For example, could I use one Push for launching clips and another for modulation simultaneously.

This is possible. Right click on a device header and select “Lock to Control Surface" to lock a Push (or any controller) to that device.

Yes this seems to imply it.

Has anyone tried it? BTW, I'll repeat my question from the other thread: Can you also lock Push to a specific Track or only to specific devices?

This would be enough for my use really: have one DrumRack Track with one Push and another Push for all the other Tracks.

[panten]

I stand corrected on the multiple Push issue.. wow didn't know that, how cool.

[yur2die4]

Their talk about time signatures is interesting.

No matter what sig your clips, and the global are set to in Live, Push ALWAYS reflects clip info in 4/4. It's unbearable.

I attempted that lock to device with my Novation remote and it wouldn't have it. I wanted that 'stuck' while Push naturally armed and jumped to different tracks. So I could get different display info from plug ins instead of redundancy.

I didn't think to lock Push instead... Good feature, but in my specific scenario that remote locking would be handy :/. This is not a Push issue though haha

[TomViolenz]

Their talk about time signatures is interesting.

No matter what sig your clips, and the global are set to in Live, Push ALWAYS reflects clip info in 4/4. It's unbearable.

I attempted that lock to device with my Novation remote and it wouldn't have it. I wanted that 'stuck' while Push naturally armed and jumped to different tracks. So I could get different display info from plug ins instead of redundancy.

I didn't think to lock Push instead... Good feature, but in my specific scenario that remote locking would be handy :/. This is not a Push issue though haha

I'm not sure I understand correctly, are you talking about encoders or the display?

And why can't you lock your Novation remote?

I plan to use my Novation Nocturn through STC in addition to Push. Can you not lock it to a device and be still free to move around with Push?

Well, I'm gonna try it out tommorow, because my Push finally arrived

[yur2die4]

No it is the Remote specifically, it has an LCD display of parameters similar to Push. I think it is a variant of Mackie control. Every other thing should work as predicted.

The time sig thing has to do with the clip properties display on the Push LCD. I wasn't aware of it myself until a friend of mine was working on a track with different time sig than 4/4. The Push display will show the number of beats of a clip's loop and start/end settings in 4/4 context only. So a two bar 3/4 would look like 1.3.1 instead of 2.1.1.

It's not a big deal. Especially if you don't plan to use other time sigs. It is still plenty workable. And it still shows the correct info on the computer screen.

[TomViolenz]

No it is the Remote specifically, it has an LCD display of parameters similar to Push. I think it is a variant of Mackie control. Every other thing should work as predicted.

The time sig thing has to do with the clip properties display on the Push LCD. I wasn't aware of it myself until a friend of mine was working on a track with different time sig than 4/4. The Push display will show the number of beats of a clip's loop and start/end settings in 4/4 context only. So a two bar 3/4 would look like 1.3.1 instead of 2.1.1.

It's not a big deal. Especially if you don't plan to use other time sigs. It is still plenty workable. And it still shows the correct info on the computer screen.

Ah, I see.
Good to hear that two independent devices can be controlled by two controllers as long as one is locked to one of the controllers. Would be nice if it would be developed further to allow all controllers to roam freely and independently!

[yur2die4]

Yes. The biggest thorn in my side is the way that it arms tracks. It is extremely frustrating for me. When using Push alone it is beautiful. It gets messy when you're arming with one controller and half-arming with Push and moving around, playing notes in this or that. You have to use it to completely get the picture. I can see how it'd be difficult for Ableton to program a workaround. I secretly wish that you could assign 'colored arm buttons' to different hardware, similar to the clip launch border.

Oh, speaking of locking devices to a hardware controller. Many scripts have the option to midi assign a button to lock to currently selected device. That makes it even more handy . I would not be one bit surprised if STC has that as an option. Then you won't have to right-click. It'd be handy if Push also had that.

[TomViolenz]

Yes. The biggest thorn in my side is the way that it arms tracks. It is extremely frustrating for me. When using Push alone it is beautiful. It gets messy when you're arming with one controller and half-arming with Push and moving around, playing notes in this or that. You have to use it to completely get the picture. I can see how it'd be difficult for Ableton to program a workaround. I secretly wish that you could assign 'colored arm buttons' to different hardware, similar to the clip launch border.

Oh, speaking of locking devices to a hardware controller. Many scripts have the option to midi assign a button to lock to currently selected device. That makes it even more handy . I would not be one bit surprised if STC has that as an option. Then you won't have to right-click. It'd be handy if Push also had that.

Oh STC does, I'm already using it with the Nocturn.
I never used my Nocturn much until I discovered STC, since then I use it all the time!

I looked at the Push manual, and had a few questions come to mind, maybe you know the answers:
1: Which Midichannel is Push listening/receiving at? (I need to know this to set up my other controllers correctly)
2: Duplicate seems to always insert a scene instead of duplicating the clip to the next existing scene. Is that correct? Are there workarounds? This would be quite inconveniant because I wanted to hardcode some clyphx x-triggers to certain clip slots. That doesn't work if the scene numbers keep on changing.
3: This is more Live related I guess, but is there a way to exclude clips from launching when you launch a scene? I know you can remove the stop, but I would like to remove the start, except for when the clip slot is triggered directly. I want to use clyphx snap clips for preset recall, but I don't want to change the preset of my synth, everytime I launch a scene. The Launchoptions don't seem to have anything related. But there must be a way, right?

[yur2die4]

1. Push's remote script will not map to anything. So the functionality of it will never be interfered with, I think max4live might be an exception, not sure. The User page is most likely channel 1...... I kind of forget, but it's highly likely, incase you wanted a light show by sending random notes at random velocities to the pads haha

2. Duplicate on its own will duplicate a scene, but holding Duplicate you can then tap a clip (if you are in Session mode on Push). There are also two types of modes (hold User to see options). When you got New, by default you create a new scene of all the clips playing, with the currently selected/activated clip slot blank to record new ideas. It is really fucking fast. Immediate. The up and down arrows are like this too. You can do some goofy things by scrolling up and down scenes. In the Other mode, it strictly creates a new clip, and leaves all the other clips playing from where ever.

3. That's a pretty classic request. And it is classic because there isn't really a solution yet. Although it just got me thinking about how Automation and overriding automation might be a secret workaround? When you launch a scene, do you want the previously playing material to continue on certain channels, or do you only want certain clips to not make sound yet??

[TomViolenz]

1. Push's remote script will not map to anything. So the functionality of it will never be interfered with, I think max4live might be an exception, not sure. The User page is most likely channel 1...... I kind of forget, but it's highly likely, incase you wanted a light show by sending random notes at random velocities to the pads haha
Interesting, I can't quite wrap my head around how that works. I know STC is listening/receiving by default on channel 1 and that is not directly mapped either. But I will avoid channel 1 then, STC can be edited, so no problem there.
2. Duplicate on its own will duplicate a scene, but holding Duplicate you can then tap a clip (if you are in Session mode on Push).

I'll check that out tomorrow. The manual always said Duplicates the clip on a new scene . So I'll see. There are also two types of modes (hold User to see options). When you got New, by default you create a new scene of all the clips playing, with the currently selected/activated clip slot blank to record new ideas. It is really fucking fast. Immediate. The up and down arrows are like this too. You can do some goofy things by scrolling up and down scenes. In the Other mode, it strictly creates a new clip, and leaves all the other clips playing from where ever.

3. That's a pretty classic request. And it is classic because there isn't really a solution yet. Although it just got me thinking about how Automation and overriding automation might be a secret workaround? When you launch a scene, do you want the previously playing material to continue on certain channels, or do you only want certain clips to not make sound yet??
Quite different actually: Are you familiar with clyphx and the snap function?
Basically it takes a snapshot of all the parameters at the time it is triggered and writes these into the name of a clip. (A huge inwieldy list, but that doesn't matter) Upon retriggering the same clip now, all your devices will revert back to the parameter settings that are written into the clip name. If you then change a lot of things and trigger another clip like this, it records these changed settings now. Upon retriggering this clip it will revert back to these other settings now. Over time you can make lots of presets right there in your Live set. It gets better though. Clyphx has a functionality called a snap rack, where you can load a new preset into the rack and move between the current state and the one in the preset with the first macro on this rack using a controller if you want. So you are morphing between presets. It's quite awsome, and I want to make extensive use of this. But this means I will have a bunch of clips in my set, that play neither music nor automation, but instead hold presets. So if they would get triggered together with my music, it would lead to a change of the preset of the instrument that is playing the music. That's obviously not how I would want that. So these clips have to be either out of the way on scenes I never trigger, or they should be disabled for scene launch. After what you said above, it looks like it will have to be the former solution :-/

[yur2die4]

When it comes to Control Surfaces, Live channels them exclusively. They can use any channel that you or they want. They can all use the same channels or same notes even. To an extent.

When you set up a control surface, you very explicitly choose which midi device it is receiving from. In the case of Push there are two midi devices. There is Push the Live controller, and Push User. The live controller automatically sets itself in control surfaces, it is not available in the lower half for Key or Remote. All that is taken care of as a control surface. Therefore it never interferes.

In the case of the Push User mode, that is available for key input and for remote mapping. Unless you assign it to a Control Surface in the top part of preferences it will not interfere with any other control surface stuff (STC).

STC, on your setup is set to receive midi in Control Surfaces from your Novation device. It will strictly communicate with that until you might for instance activate Remote in midi settings and per chance midi map a control.

Midi mapping anything with Remote turned on can sometimes override anything else from Control Surfaces that has Remote turned on. (So if an APC fader is cc 07, ch 1. And your Novation device also uses cc7 ch1, they can conflict IF remote is turned on. If Remote is off, there will be no mapping issues).

The Other scenario that can cause conflicts in Control Surfaces is if you have two different scripts that both use input from the Same device. So if you use STC, And the Guile script, they can overlap and act funny. Unless you can make one of them a separate channel. The only reason they'd overlap is because of the scripts both listening to the same input.

It's a lot like how midi channels in Live can either listen for All available devices, only certain midi channels, or exclusively one specific device. Funny thing is, Push can override that and will play any track it is on, whether the track is accepting all inputs Or input only from some other keyboard. Push can still play that channel, since it's not technically a midi key device, it handles all it's notes through Live scripting or whatever, hence the ability to hit the same key over and over and it represent different abstract ideas.

tl;dr - you probably won't have to change channels, unless you are midi mapping things on your Novation device and have Remote turned on in midi prefs