The Great BitWig Migration

[TTOZ]

TTOZ, can you give it a rest, please? Hate on BW all you like, but insulting other forum members is not cool.

get a grip on reality mate, i didn't start the personal attacks. It's that simple. Tell that to diva. And he gets off on it, cause every time I mention something negative about bitwig he is the first to quote and go at me and refuse to believe that it's simply my opinion and has delusions of grandeur that there is some other reason to my posting. In fact he must enjoy it that much, as the more he baits me he knows the more I will do it and continue to do so. So please learn to read what is said first to me before making your wild accusations.

So, to answer you, no. Until Ableton tells me otherwise or until the diva gets off my case, i will continue to post on the topic as I please. Thank you.

[eyeknow]

@ eyeknow: that is a real issue. BW is promising, and if they continue to v 2, v3, they will be a force to be reckoned with. But will they survive that long? They need to make some sales in the interim, and if there is not a strong value proposition right now, those sales won't materialize.

That's the thing. I'm all for bitwig being popular and pushing the boundaries. Competition is a good thing, but 400 bucks is a ton of coin for something that is kinda sorely lacking in some areas.

[Angstrom]

well, there's a couple of ways to go on pricing a new product:

A: Price it low EG: at $200, and because of the lower price 500 users purchase at $200 = $100,000 gross income

B: Price it slightly higher EG at $400, but because of the higher price only 250 users purchase at $400 = $100,000 gross income

now, in case A (cheap price), you can slowly increase prices as you add new features so you slowly match the competitor average, but because people see that sort of inflation as a net loss you face a negative reaction to your price increases from customers.

In case B (expensive price) however you can offer "50% off" deals and promotions whenever you feel like it and get lots of plaudits from customers having a positive reaction to the perceived massive price decrease.

Of course the price variation is the same whether you are occasionally discounting 50% or occasionally adding 100%, the psychological difference however is totallyu in favour of the high initial price with occasional discounts.


Source: Daniel Kahneman

[cstump]

There was no 50% off sale, the most I saw was 5%, nothing really when you figure in the total price.

If they did have a half off sale that would have fared a lot better for them given the "Actual" value of the product as it stood when it was released.

[Angstrom]

There was no 50% off sale, the most I saw was 5%, nothing really when you figure in the total price.

If they did have a half off sale that would have fared a lot better for them given the "Actual" value of the product as it stood when it was released.

Not yet, we are still in the early adopter phase. Bleeding edge consumers who will lay down cash for curiosities sake. I predict the first sales will start in a few months.

As i said: compare the grosses, its the same profit getting 250 users at 400 as 500 users at 200. Plus you can bestow gifts of promotional codes.

[Machinesworking]

That's the thing. I'm all for bitwig being popular and pushing the boundaries. Competition is a good thing, but 400 bucks is a ton of coin for something that is kinda sorely lacking in some areas.

To you, and areas I care about as well, but for a lot of people it's great.
I care about areas that are not useful to everyone, Ableton also doesn't do SysEx for example.
It's been 14 years and it still doesn't.

Some people are willing to pay $400 for plug in sandboxing, 32 bit bridge built in, a real synth included, arguably better time stretching, an LFO that doesn't require Suite 9 etc.

Mostly what's missing in major terms is rewire, not everyone uses rewire.
Multi out from VSTs is the other thing. If neither of those things is important to you, it's not missing anything.
Does it have everything Suite has? nope, but it also doesn't cost $799.

My question is when they release v2 with a built in modular system like Max and probably a set of synths etc. built from it, and I'm almost willing to bet rewire, if it still costs $399 are people still going to try to paint Suite as a better deal? To me price isn't everything, but as it stands I could buy BW outright for about $350, and upgrade to 9 Suite from 8 Suite for $299. The main thing that makes me think about Bitwig in the future is Suite upgrade pricing.

[deva]

as i know for a fact his opinion is honest

I agree his opinion is honest... It is yours that isn't...

You attack people all the time and when someone points out your mean spiritedness, you claim it is they who are getting personal.

It is a fairly common behavior... pretend to adhere to some 'ethical' line of not getting personal, while all the time slipping over that line and making various sorts of personal jabs and attacks... and of course claiming that nobody should ever say anything because that would be getting personal. That argument is bullshit.

[eyeknow]

Well, I think it's not just me. I'm pretty sure that the consensus is "who farted"

But seriously, all views are welcome. In fact nobody REALLY knows if they will survive, if there will be a v2, if they might even take over the world. It's gone about exactly as I expected to be honest.

[deva]

There was no 50% off sale, the most I saw was 5%, nothing really when you figure in the total price.

If they did have a half off sale that would have fared a lot better for them given the "Actual" value of the product as it stood when it was released.

I have no idea about their current sales, but maybe you do? If not, you really can't know they would have fared better. Maybe they are doing great. Maybe they would rather have half the users at double the price while they get the majority of issues sorted out. Maybe they are kicking themselves for not starting with an intro price but now feel they cannot. Maybe part of leaving Ableton was an agreement not to undercut the price for a period of time.

Only the people on the inside know what is going on. I've been on the inside of some big projects that solicited lots of speculations (and conspiracy theories) that were usually way off the mark because every situation has its specific set of variables affecting decisions that most outsiders are simply unaware of.

[deva]

The main thing that makes me think about Bitwig in the future is Suite upgrade pricing.

Upgrading Suite aint cheap!

Another thing for me that is intriguing about Bitwig is just that it is new and the devs have lots of cool stuff they want to implement. For example, one of them mentioned in the forum that they want to do stuff like scene follow actions. Live development seems a little staid.

[Machinesworking]

Well, I think it's not just me. I'm pretty sure that the consensus is "who farted"

But seriously, all views are welcome. In fact nobody REALLY knows if they will survive, if there will be a v2, if they might even take over the world. It's gone about exactly as I expected to be honest.

It's not just you of course, but it's by no means a majority of people saying it's shit because X, Y or Z.
The backlash is exactly as expected for sure though. Honestly I don't think any company could live up to the hype?
and let's be honest here, there was a guaranteed certain amount of people who would think it was shit, and a certain amount who were going to love it no matter what.
Mostly I think people that have a strong opinion about whether Bitwig is better than Live should start watching professional sports and root for your home team etc.

[cstump]

I have no idea about their current sales, but maybe you do? If not, you really can't know they would have fared better...

What difference does it make if what is mentioned in my response matches hypothetical or current Sales? I know myself I wouldn't be interested in purchasing it in it's current state and the state it was in when they released it at full price.

Seems to me I guess I'll have to clear it with you before I speculate(which by the way you do yourself) before I post again...NOT! just like you have opinion everyone else has one too, welcome to the Interwebs.

In your defense of a competing Sequencer you have to expect people are not going to agree with everything I say nor you but as this is a Live forum I kinda consider Bitwig threads as boarderline trolling which eventually leads to getting peoples dander up when the drum beating for another product is brought and argued over and over and over and over(get it, THE SAME Sh%t regurgitated). If you look at the results of this poll which the thread is about apparently I'm NOT the only one who feels the way I do. If feature comparisons are brought up I can agree Live can use the fire but Fanboism(Live and Bitwig and whetever else is the flavor of the day) is a fact of life just about anywhere and if it goes towards a better product we all can agree on that.

Lets just leave it at that and not lock horns on this for a while, okay.

[eyeknow]

Well, I think it's not just me. I'm pretty sure that the consensus is "who farted"

But seriously, all views are welcome. In fact nobody REALLY knows if they will survive, if there will be a v2, if they might even take over the world. It's gone about exactly as I expected to be honest.

It's not just you of course, but it's by no means a majority of people saying it's shit because X, Y or Z.
The backlash is exactly as expected for sure though. Honestly I don't think any company could live up to the hype?
and let's be honest here, there was a guaranteed certain amount of people who would think it was shit, and a certain amount who were going to love it no matter what.
Mostly I think people that have a strong opinion about whether Bitwig is better than Live should start watching professional sports and root for your home team etc.

I no longer watch professional sports. Especially football.

[Machinesworking]

I no longer watch professional sports. Especially football.

That explains a lot.

[eyeknow]

(sarcastic voice) dat expanes alot