The Bitwig evaluation thread

[UncleAge]

I checked out the demo. I may check it out again down the line but I'm not parting with $400 just yet. The costs outweigh the benefits at this point in time, imo.

One of the things that I wanted to see is whether or not it would be more effecient cpu wise. Had they come close to Reaper's cpu footprint I would have been impressed. They haven't as of now and I'm not so sure I'm sold on the gui either. It's different but that is not necesssarily better in my book. I like it but at this point the most impressive thing to me is the rate at which they are squashing bugs.

If they had priced it at $99-$149 for this version I could see making the contribution. Anything above that and I have to wait. In fact, I don't understand a lot of folks nowadays buying into early releases that they know are buggy. It's gotten to where if you use a product for production you don't even think about an upgrade for at least 6-12 months after a release. I mean Live 8 had huge showstopping bugs and BWS 1 has a lot of them and a lot of unfinished (I hope unfinished) tools and folks are willing to pay hundreds of dollars to beta test? I guess I'm getting old because I don't understand it. Vote with your dollars and we keep 'em honest.

[dna598]

I like the editing and intuitive feel of bitwig, BUT...

seems they both (BW & LIVE) come from the same place when it comes to slicing. It is there, but my god, it still makes recycle look like it comes from the year 2025.

I know Recycle is a dedicated slicing app from biblical times, but I am convinced slicing has become, or simply is, an afterthought for some of these new fangled audio developers.

ie. In Bitwig there is no way to audition slice before committing afaik... which makes it worse than live, with its awkward implementation.

[Geek Model]

PDC is fixed in Bitwig. Works fine.

April Fools!!!

No. PDC is fixed and works fine. That's all.

[eyeknow]

Yeah, they said they were going to fix it. Imagine that. Now the ball is in abletons court. Go on abes, pull a seattle and deliver the knockout punch!

[kb420]

PDC is fixed in Bitwig. Works fine.

April Fools!!!

No. PDC is fixed and works fine. That's all.

Good! Did they add all of these basic missing features too?

1. Track Folders
2. Input Quantize
3. Hot swapping for drum rack pads
4. More flexible midi routing
5. Better vertical track zooming
6. "Snap to zero crossing" in the drum machine's sample editor
7. Groove extraction and groove quantize
8. More than one color scheme for GUI
9. Mutiple output support for vst's, and
10. A crossfader

[lowshelf]

Did they add all of these basic missing features too?

It's only Wednesday morning. I would guess they've spent such a long time honing a framework, so that those pretty simple organizational tweaks can be easily added. Then again, the cynic in me thinks they actually released a 2012 build, and are now just drip-feeding fixes and updates From a remote location in the Pacific. Sipping on cocktails at the beach, lolling at KVR.

[eyeknow]

Sipping on cocktails at the beach, lolling at KVR.

No, they don't like the cats.

[TTOZ]

PDC is fixed in Bitwig. Works fine.

April Fools!!!

No. PDC is fixed and works fine. That's all.

so automation being in sync means working pdc? Before that fix bitwig pdc was identical to live.. identical! So you know who to blame to screw up live's pdc to begin with!

All the other limitations are still there and it is the only host besides live that puts playhead out of sync with entire project, and where you can put an effect with latency on one track and every other track in the project even if they are not on the same signal path also get affected by that latency when monitoring. It's useless and only one small step above live's. They have coded it from the ground up the same way as live, it's obvious. Fixing it would mean a rewrite.. already! They won't do it, or might when they have a year or two to spare LOL.

Ableton could match bitshit pdc at any time but my guess is they want to do it PROPERLY like cubase, pro tools etc where everything is in sync at all times visually and where one track does not affect another's monitoring. Ableton won't do it half assed and therefore why it's taking so long as it IS such a massive job.

Why would anyone leave ableton to go to the program that does much less overall, and run by the guys that screwed up live's pdc in the first place! LMAO! Suckers for punishment?

Please just wait for ableton to do a PROPER pdc (which bitshit does not have) and watch them crush the bitshitters. There will be no comparison after that. All live has to do for immediate 'retaliation;' and temporary user appeasement in an incremental update right now is put automation in time with PDC (the basic update bitwig did when the program was released with identical bad pdc to live's) and some layered editing midi features.. and then it makes bitshit look like live version 1.0 and ten years behind the curve .I just find the whole thing hilarious that some even think bitshit is in remotely the same league as live.. (and I am not even a live user as a main host, i rewire it into logic just for loop syncing so i have no reason to be biased here!).. i think Live on a scale of 1-10 literally OFF the scale in immeasurable numbers in comparison to how much better it is than bitshit.

Look, i waited like everyone else, and was semi excited about bitshit, and if i thought it was at least decent intuitive software with even the most basic features, i would be following it closely and hoping the best for it and that it became a real contender. But instead we get half baked mega delayed release from devs with major attitude. I really hope ableton does crush them. Mince.

[Machinesworking]

Look, i waited like everyone else, and was semi excited about bitshit, and if i thought it was at least decent intuitive software with even the most basic features, i would be following it closely and hoping the best for it and that it became a real contender. But instead we get half baked mega delayed release from devs with major attitude. I really hope ableton does crush them. Mince.

Where are you getting that? They seem cut from the same cloth of cool european developer guys that Ableton is to me?

look there are lots of reasons to not like Bitwig compared to Live:
No user assignable Clip firing.
Even worse CPU piggishness than Live.
No grouping.
No ReWire
No REX, .caf, or sd2 audio file Support.

Things that would be arguably better than Live and were talked about:
No modular environment yet.
No user assignable keyboard shortcuts.
Networking etc.

I just don't see the point of all the internet anger about it taking them years to build a DAW and it being a 1.0 release still?
Maybe I just think both those things are pretty normal? Because they built, (and to a large degree the internet built on it's own), major hype around it isn't any reason to expect it to be MASSIVELY better than any other DAW.

What happens to your anger if Bitwig manage to do PDC perfectly and Ableton still have the same issue with it?
Knowing you you'll turn around and trash Ableton and swear loyalty to Bitwig!
Don't even try to deny it, you switch between Logic and Cubase on a yearly basis! and there was the whole Reason 7 fiasco!

But yeah, I'm a bit disappointed too! I expected better CPU performance, not worse, but it is what it is. For some the multiple Projects, plug in sandboxing, LFO, and different look and feel will be enough, me? I want ReWire and more than just half the CPU performance of Digital Performer.

[petermarchione]

I am currently working with a review of Bitwig and one thing I really miss is the ability to route e.g. individual tracks from within a Drum Rack to other channels and/or processors.

Example:
On a bass track in Ableton Live I can choose an individual cell from another tracks Drum Rack as the sidechain-trigger on the bass channels compressor. So far I've only found possibility to choose another whole channel (pre or post fader) in Bitwig. Am I missing somthing or am I right?

[panten]

@TTOZ: Your childish play on the word Bitwig completely invalidates any seriousness your argument has. Grow up.

[re:dream]

I am really interested in the kinds of hatin' that seems to go on around these DAWs

I have been looking at the KVR threads about BW and Live, and it is astonishing.

If a DAW does not have a feature someone wants, they act like it's a personal insult to them.

Fact is, any one of these DAWs that you have these days, even Reaper which is, what, 60 USD, gives you power to manipulate sound that was unimaginable 10 or even 5 years ago. People were making amazing music using software that could not do a fraction of what software can do now.

And DAWs these days are enormously complicated things. Unlike Photoshop or Avid, you are talking here about programs that need to be able to do an enormous amount of digital signal processing, manipulation and editing involving enormous numbers of sound files at the same time, in real time. And while there are niggles and problems, all of them give you amazing creative possibilities. But people act as if the folks who design and make these programmes are assholes for not giving them exactly what they want.

[timday]

This.

I suspect that the reason Ableton's PDC isn't sorted, and Bitwig's wasn't on release and maybe still isn't because dear god I am no way wading through a bunch of kvr forums to try to find out, is that getting sample accurate PDC with complex nested racks with internal and external returns and then getting it all to respond sensibly in session view for performance is in fact a lot more difficult than some of the commenters here suggest.

I'd still like it sorted, mind you.

[dna598]

Why are they running everything out of a single crappy forum on a separate website? Where did those millions go?

[tone61]

I am really interested in the kinds of hatin' that seems to go on around these DAWs

I have been looking at the KVR threads about BW and Live, and it is astonishing.

If a DAW does not have a feature someone wants, they act like it's a personal insult to them.
...
But people act as if the folks who design and make these programmes are assholes for not giving them exactly what they want.

One view of how to develop products:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mCjd ... 08/tbt.jpg