Ableton Forum

Hello, I know this has been posted on many occasions. I've read countless things, produced for 7+ years and always done my own mastering. My problem arises that I've always (in my mind) blended the mixing and mastering phases, while I kept them separate, I always seemed to be doing things in the mix I could fix later in mastering and then also trying to fix things in the mix in the mastering phase.

I've taken off a few years from 'releasing' music, I started an electronic digital distribution label almost 3 years ago; 60 releases out. I've never used a mastering engineer myself.

My question is in regards to preparing the proper pre-mix (to be mastered). I leave my master at 0db and no effects. My next question is that the recommended level for a mastering engineer to leave -5 to -6 db of headroom, which is the highest 'peak' in the track. My concern is that by mixing too low on the channels and keeping the master around -3db at it's peak, does that mean I should only bring down the master to -3db?

OR, should I just create my mix as clean as possible and get it so the highest peak is coming at -5 to -6db (without lower the master volume fader). I will be exporting at 24 bit so the signal loss won't be there, however for some reason it just feels like the mix is too light or soft. Yet, I know from my own mastering experience that high levels of volume can be achieved with a few intelligently used effects/plugins.

My genre is a mixture of Deep, Tech and Electro house with bits of techno and trance (minus the high bpm). The focus is in the kick drum and the basslines, I'm wondering what is a recommended level for the kick drum to hit in it's own channel, what should it be coming through on the master in terms of -db? Clean mix is everything, but i feel confused as i can't decide if i should keep the mix closer to -3b to 0db on the master, then lower to get the desired -5 or -6db of headroom. OR am I better of just lower the levels in the mix to get it balanced and closer to -5 or -6db on the master?

Basically, should we make our pre-mix at 0db and work to get it around -5 to -6db, then I have quality mastering engineers to send it to. I'm focused on the best mix possible, I typically over work tracks and if anyone can provide any insight or advice as to what they feel is proper, it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

B

Would love to help, can you try asking the question again though? Not sure I understand which part of that was a question

Angstrom's points in this Do you know how to read your meters? -18dBfs theory? post are worth a read. I've reached my own conclusions based on his insight but I'd like to hear from more experienced users. As long as the rendered file has no clipping and the mix is satisfactory, is there even a need for headroom prior to mastering?

[edit: here is a link to some nice dry discussion on floating point numbers]

The ONLY need for headroom is just as a safety net to ensure no clipping, and the -6dBFS recommendation you see a lot is just a rough guideline, not an exact target. If you're 100% positive your meters are accurate and you're not clipping, you could export as close to 0dBFS as you want.

Though really, I think there's little point in trying to get close to 0dBFS as well, it doesn't gain you anything if you're using 24bit files to render. Most of my mixdowns peak around -3 to -15dBFS, as long as it's in that range, close enough for me.

this is great conversation as I've been playing with "gain-staging" over the last couple of mixes, the last couple of weeks . . . there really is no "noise-floor" anymore

my latest concusion is that those of us who grew-up with tape-based recording systems need to LET GO of the 0db touchstone. It's kinda crazy to see those db meters bouncing around so low in their range but that's where all the dynamics thrive. If it's not LOUD enough for you; simply turn-up your monitors.

. . . it's kind of liberating and opens up the real dynamics within each instrument

Here here!

I've read the tarekith mastering, very helpful.

Thanks for the feedback, my general question is that it doesn't really matter what your master bus is, as long as it's not clipping?

I understand raising volume levels on monitors, my issue I'm using two Yamaha 5's (on pads) in a small room with only about a foot from the wall (on their backside). I have Beyerdynamic 770 Pro's as reference headphones so I don't have any 'sub' or low end as my monitors go to about 70Hz, which is not an ideal room to be mastering. However, it's all I have to work with at the moment.

Is it wiser to leave more headroom to help with dynamics? I know there isn't a right answer, I'm just on this 'quest' to get my levels right as I have endless musical ideas. Crazy high volume isn't my goal, however I don't want it to feel 'quiet' as some of it is geared more for the club system..

Cheers and appreciate the help everyone!

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

http://www.soundcloud.com/bright-morningstar - one of my soundcloud accounts, tracks from a few years ago I mastered myself. I've learned a lot since then, any tips/advice would be greatly appreciated

Are you in Chicago? I'm in the West Suburbs.

If I were you I'd crank out more tunes and not worry too much about a couple of db here and there. If you're looking to step it up a notch you might think about collaborating with a more experienced producer/artist. 17k plays on a soundcloud tune from two years ago seems like a pretty respectable effort.

Thanks for the support man, yea I live in Lakeview (kinda near Cubs stadium..).

my e-mail is [email protected] if you want to hit me up man

my latest concusion is that those of us who grew-up with tape-based recording systems need to LET GO of the 0db touchstone. It's kinda crazy to see those db meters bouncing around so low in their range but that's where all the dynamics thrive. If it's not LOUD enough for you; simply turn-up your monitors.

. . . it's kind of liberating and opens up the real dynamics within each instrument

This. Even though by default my levels are to -12 (and sampler/simpler levels are -20db with 100% Vel so normalized hits at full velocity get right up to 0 db)
and dynamic range is great, sometimes without thinking about it I'll adjust levels to get close to 0db, like a subconscious trait. It's been a long time since recording on tape too. It's weird.

I lived in Lakeview for a little bit close to the Paulina Brown Line (right by a big Jewel), a little further walk would get to the Belmont Red line.
In Edgewater now, in between Broadway and Sheridan/LSD.