Ableton Forum

Hey guys,

Need some advice, I plan to learn piano and learn hard maybe 2-3 hours practice a day to begin with. I love and plan to produce Trance music and I've been using ableton for years on a DJ level so will be using that as my DAW for production.

Can someone recommend what type of keyboard is best to fit both purposes?

I was going to go with the M-Audio Axiom Pro keyboard as it has 'weighted keys' how important do you guys think that is?

Any advice appreciated.

Get weighted keys and get a full, or at the very minimum a 61-key keyboard. Go to a local shop and test out the feel of different keyboards. If you truly want to learn the piano, I'd look at different action keys as well. Most MIDI controller keys aren't going to give you the kind of action that you really want to truly play the piano with feel and emotion. You'll find limitations as you grow in your piano playing if you get a 61-key keyboard, which is why I'd recommend a full-sized keyboard, if you can afford it.

I have a digital piano as well as a 49-key MIDI controller. (AKAI MAX) I use the controller as, well, a controller and to quickly bang out some musical ideas. I use the piano if I really want the feel and expression in live playing to come across.

Yeah Piano playing and Trance production are different beasts.

For actual piano playing and good feedback a weighted keybed is pretty much a must if you plan to learn piano but it may prove difficult to pull off some synth based stuff especially if you have fast paced stuff where you want to hammer the keys as they just wont respond quick enough.

As above, 61 key would be a MIN. Synth and trance stuff a lesser key bed could work just fine. Best to go to the music shop and have a play because we all have different ideas of what is workable.

Akai MPK88

if you are serious about learning piano, you have to get a full-size one with fully weighted. to produce trance/music, you can get any cheap little device to do that with very little effort. digital pianos are usually no where near as expensive as real pianos, but getting one with all 88 fully weighted keys (that also can send midi data) is still usually quite more expensive then just a simple midi controller..

i recommend you just go to a music store and try out a few yourself. i personally have a Yamaha p155, and i absolutely love it!

djesa wrote:if you are serious about learning piano, you have to get a full-size one with fully weighted. to produce trance/music, you can get any cheap little device to do that with very little effort. digital pianos are usually no where near as expensive as real pianos, but getting one with all 88 fully weighted keys (that also can send midi data) is still usually quite more expensive then just a simple midi controller..

i recommend you just go to a music store and try out a few yourself. i personally have a Yamaha p155, and i absolutely love it!

I love my p155 as well! Good choice!

I bought an M-Audio Keystation 61es for the same reason and love it. And it's great for those late nights when you're just sitting up, wandering the keys looking for new melodies and inspiration. Just don't forget to hit Record--you never know what might come out of it until it's already happened! LOL

Casio PX-5 might bw what you are looking for. Wighted keys, piano sounds, and a modest but editable synthesis engine.

http://www.casiomusicgear.com/products/ ... ivia/PX-5S

digital pianos usually have better keys.

Another advantage to a digital piano is most have built in speakers so can be used for piano practice without the computer. A controller will require you to fire up the computer and load some kind of software piano.

Of the currently available 88-key controllers, the Akai MPK88 as mentioned above has a good piano action.

Yamaha, who make real pianos as well as electic ones, have good actions...they used to sell the KX88 controller, you could look for a used one.

+1 for the p155, very good piano action. Yamaha also released the P255 which can connect with an ipad.

Great advice guys I really appreciate it, some great recommendations but out of my price range mostly.

It's interesting that the general feeling is if you want it mainly for making Trance you don't need to fuss too much, if for piano playing then invest in an expensive one.

I think after a bit more research since my original post I'll go for the M-Audio Axiom 61 (2nd gen) not the Pro one because it's pretty cheap used (about £80-£100 UK), and has Directlink for ableton.

I'd rather have the ones you suggested but a bit above my price bracket.

The reason I want to learn piano is only so I can get better at doing good trance melodies, orchestral trance being the main inspiration. Maybe I don't need to focus on piano so much then.

Novation Impulse 49. Nice keys, semi-weighted, drum pads. Not too crappy, not too expensive. But almost as ugly as Ableton, unfortunately.

I am currently in Japan (waiting for the Typhoon to hit) and I picked up a Yamaha p105B for basically the same reasons as you. Here it cost about 270USD and it is their cheapest piano that still retains their highest quality piano sample engine AND have graded hammer action keys. I have been playing around with it for some weeks now and it is definitely all the quality you need for those late night practice sessions.

When it comes to producing I guess it is always a plus if you can play the piano, but what you really need is to study the theory. When it comes to Trance I would start with the circle of fifths. And how scales are constructed on that basis. Then chords, chord progressions and chord inversions. There is a lot of youtube videos on this.

I know many of these things by heart but still can't play the piano. But at least I have a clue what I am doing when I add a new midi note to a clip in live. But these are just tools. In the end it is you ears that is BAWS!

A few pointers:
A keyboard with built in speakers can be good for quick access when you don't feel like loading up a patch on the computer
But those usually lose the flexible midi controller capabilities. So it isn't a rule, just something to think about.

When learning musical concepts, it is helpful to even have a keyboard on the go, for when you think or read about something and want to grasp the concepts through practice. If you can find a respectable app on a smartphone or iPod to do that, it'll help more than you'd think.