"Making your own music"

[garryliu]

Can anyone give me their thoughts on this?

So Im fairly new to music production. Ive very passionate and I have been blessed with parents that have given me some great studio equipment.
I recently asked an artist that I admire to collab (Mainly to learn) I even offered to give him full credit for the end product
He initially accepted but then turned me down. Saying that I do not create my own art. And because I have used samples, I am stealing the art of many hard working artists.
I dont wish to do that or steal others work to call my own. I really didnt know that using samples and stuff was wrong.
So can someone explain to if I am creating my own art or not. Or have I been stealing others works.

Also, where can I start to "Make my own art". Where do I learn Melody production, or beat making, or any of that. I really want to learn and I feel like I just need to be pointed in the right direction.

Thanks, Garry

[yur2die4]

There are a lot of avenues you can take. Using samples is an artform in itself but if you were to Release any of that material, you could find yourself in trouble. Although if it is for personal use, you can usually get away with it.

The most important thing is, go whatever direction inspires you most. Roll with it. If you're curious about theory and beats, focus on it for a bit. If samples are really fun, play around. The thing you gain from playing with things that DO inspire you, No Matter What they are, is experience. As you gain more experience through practice you develop an ear, and problem solving techniques.

So just do whatever you want. And you'll learn from it. You'll become you. The worst thing you can do is let fear freeze you in your tracks.

[muthafunka]

Art samples life.
Plagiarism steals other people's shit.
Your heart knows the difference.

that's my deep and moody done for today.

[BoddAH]

You have to build your own computer from raw silicon and iron ore and program your own DAW with a programming language you invented for your computer architecture otherwise you’re stealing the hard work of other people for your own benefit.

Oh and if you want to record any instruments, make sure you made them yourself from wood or anything else lying around. Just make sure you don’t get caught stealing the hard work from the sun and the soil. Oh and also make your microphone yourself.

[TomViolenz]

Ironicaly this colaboration probably would have prevented you from becoming an artist of your own.
You may be able to learn the tools of the trade from someone else, but not how to become an artist.

As Yur2Die4 said, roll with it and slowly learn what kind of art you want to make.

[pepezabala]

Ironicaly this colaboration probably would have prevented you from becoming an artist of your own.
You may be able to learn the tools of the trade from someone else, but not how to become an artist.

As Yur2Die4 said, roll with it and slowly learn what kind of art you want to make.

no. all good comes through people. not through equipment or media. you become an artist by creating a body of work that is being confronted with people. the bigger this body of work and the bigger the number of people that stumble upon this, the better.

[re:dream]

Why do you want to start with collaborating with someone else?

Play around with making your own stuff & then choose collaborations where you both benefit.

[TomViolenz]

Ironicaly this colaboration probably would have prevented you from becoming an artist of your own.
You may be able to learn the tools of the trade from someone else, but not how to become an artist.

As Yur2Die4 said, roll with it and slowly learn what kind of art you want to make.

no. all good comes through people. not through equipment or media. you become an artist by creating a body of work that is being confronted with people. the bigger this body of work and the bigger the number of people that stumble upon this, the better.

I disagree completely
Art != popular art

What is sold as art to you is a product aiming for market penetration through means of advertisment
The amount of fools parted from their money says nothing about the quality of your art or you as an artist
(Example Van Gogh: Hasn't sold a single painting during his life time)

In any case none of this even applies here.

If he would have colaborated with the guy, he obviously would have ended up not using samples, not by his own artistic intend, but by the one from that guy.
So would he really be an artist then?!

There is enough time to colaborate once he has found his voice as an artist and can meet the other on equal footing.

[amigo]

Your collaborator needs to take his head out of his ass. He chose his path but he has no right to tell you that yours is the wrong path.

Using samples is a personal choice and in no way defines you as a non-artist. Your music is what comes out of you at the end of the day and if you just happen to use a sample or two or even if everything you used is samples so be it. If it is an original composition that you are proud of that is all that matters.

Do what makes you happy and fuck everybody else.

[Tagor]

you cannot buy talent
and if not talented
you may learn techniqes

or take guitar lessons, or piano

and start your creativity-process
from there - or try to rebuild a track
to learn about soundcreation.

even if it don`t sound in anyway like the original
on the way you will really learn something while
walking in the footsteps of somebody who was creative.

Melodymaking can be specific, because its depend on the instrument.
Try to listen some bulgarian gypsy-Folkmusic in Operator, there you
will see its depent on the instrument you are using.

[Tarekith]

Watch this before you worry if using samples is legit:

http://www.ted.com/talks/mark_ronson_ho ... anguage=en

[ImNotDedYet]

You have to build your own computer from raw silicon and iron ore and program your own DAW with a programming language you invented for your computer architecture otherwise you’re stealing the hard work of other people for your own benefit.

Oh and if you want to record any instruments, make sure you made them yourself from wood or anything else lying around. Just make sure you don’t get caught stealing the hard work from the sun and the soil. Oh and also make your microphone yourself.

Except the people that created that computer and the OS that sits on top of the hardware, and the software that "sits on top of the OS" was all created to be sold, and in most cases has been purchased by the user. Same with instruments.

I'm not sure what samples you were using - if they were samples from sample packs created by artists for sale such that they can be used in productions, or samples from songs. I also don't know how you were using the samples. Many people use samples, but rather than using the whole sample, they'll take bits and pieces from the sample or loop - rearrange them, only keeping what they like. Hell, early house was all about sampling. Take a chord stab, throw it in sampler and then play it across multiple "notes." That was a common practice.

My guess is...you were taking pre-made loops and using those loops and combining them together, and that's why the artist said you weren't being artistic or whatever. There are different thoughts on that and what makes it artistic. If that's all you know right now, just do it and worry about collaborating with that artist later. Many people use loops as "backing sounds" or something that isn't the primary focus of say...the drum track or the lead.

If you want to learn about melody, just beat out some keys on a controller or in piano roll to your song. If you have access to MIDI files in your genre, open them, look at them, disect them, and re-arrange them. Look at things such as how the notes change and the rhythm of the notes. You'll probably want some kind of music theory knowledge to be built up as well.

But the truth of the matter is this: do what you can at this point and just make music. If you really get into it, the rest will come as an inquisitive way to become better at it.

[Stromkraft]

Your collaborator needs to take his head out of his ass. He chose his path but he has no right to tell you that yours is the wrong path.

The collaborator in this case, or anyone else in general, are free to have an opinion and express it in any shape or form (judiciary laws permitting). Further anyone can decline to work with someone else for any reason, expressed or not.
It's clear to me who needs to take his head out of his ass here.

Do what makes you happy and fuck everybody else.

I couldn't agree more!

[Stromkraft]

Saying that I do not create my own art. And because I have used samples, I am stealing the art of many hard working artists.
I dont wish to do that or steal others work to call my own. I really didnt know that using samples and stuff was wrong.

It's not wrong, but how you do it is what counts. You didn't explain what type of sample sources you used or how you used these? With the right app, an iPhone and a good microphone you can sample any sound out there. It doesn't have to be existing music by an artist. A sample is a sample no matter what the source. I'm in love with sampling myself. There's always more to learn.

And on how you do sampling or "lifting" ideas from others let me paraphrase T.S. Eliot:

One of the surest tests [of the superiority or inferiority of an artist] is the way in which a artist borrows. Immature artists imitate; mature artists steal; bad artists deface what they take, and good artists make it into something better, or at least something different. The good artist welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different than that from which it is torn; the bad artist throws it into something which has no cohesion. A good artist will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien in language, or diverse in interest.

The original uses "poet" which I replaced with artist.
Source (fifth paragraph): T.S. Eliot "The Sacred Wood" (1921).

I think the main ideas in this are valid also for music. You just don't sample a slice or a section of someone else's music, you rework it, transform it and make it more or less your own. Even so and especially if you can't do this well enough you pay the copyright owner for the permission to use the sample.

[H20nly]

what kind of samples were you using? i.e. loops or actual pieces of existing songs. i think sharing that would narrow down the answers to your question a little.

like yur2die4 said... you have to be careful with certain types of samples otherwise copyright infringement comes into play.

2 examples that come to mind:

1. The Verve - Bitter Sweet Symphony - There were over a hundred artists on that song (due to the symphony that plays along). The very beginning of the song (first few seconds) is said to be a Rolling Stones riff. The Stones, being the struggling artists they are, sued The Verve and won the case. They were awarded all the profits for the entire song... which is probably why you never hear it anymore even though it was so popular in the early 2000s.

2. Men At Work - A Land Down Under - There is a flute like melody in that song... it was written by a woman in the early 1900s (1920 ish) and is generally considered a children's song at this point (like Mary Had a Little Lamb or something). The rights to her song were purchased by a company after she died... AND after Men At Work wrote that song in the 80's. A few years ago (2009-ish) the company sued them for copyright infringement and won.

Most of us make music for a number of reasons... I doubt many of us would turn down a paycheck for our work... thing is, if you use a sample without permission... you kinda have to or you risk losing it later... maybe even wayyyyyyy later as in the case of Men At Work.