Ableton Forum

In my current setup I'm using a NI Audio 6 interface (does the job) and Sony MDR-7506 headphones (great for DJing, shit for production).

I'm willing but unhappily looking at dropping about $400 on better headphones but I keep seeing this OHM thing coming up and that the headphones may not be loud enough and I may need to drop more money on a headphone amplifier. WTF? On top of $400? Yes, I realize there are much more expensive headphones, but com'on! Is there some decibel shortage that you have to pay a premium to acquire volume?

One of my issues is the Sony's aren't loud enough, but I don't think a headphone amplifier is going to turn them into the perfect production headphones. I'm not looking to make my ears bleed, but I would like to somewhat feel the music. I'm also not expecting to do all music production and mixing on headphones, but the way it is now if I start something on the headphones it doesn't even sound remotely close on my monitors, like it's a completely different song. That's just fucked up.

So I'm hoping people can hit me with some facts. I'm trying to respect the neighbors here but its endlessly frustrating when the banger I started on my headphones ends up sounding like a general MIDI polka on my monitors.

this article thoroughly covers the whole headphone impedance and sensitivity issue:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/ ... ained.html

beats me wrote:In my current setup I'm using a NI Audio 6 interface (does the job) and Sony MDR-7506 headphones (great for DJing, shit for production).

I'm willing but unhappily looking at dropping about $400 on better headphones but I keep seeing this OHM thing coming up and that the headphones may not be loud enough and I may need to drop more money on a headphone amplifier. WTF? On top of $400? Yes, I realize there are much more expensive headphones, but com'on! Is there some decibel shortage that you have to pay a premium to acquire volume?

One of my issues is the Sony's aren't loud enough, but I don't think a headphone amplifier is going to turn them into the perfect production headphones. I'm not looking to make my ears bleed, but I would like to somewhat feel the music. I'm also not expecting to do all music production and mixing on headphones, but the way it is now if I start something on the headphones it doesn't even sound remotely close on my monitors, like it's a completely different song. That's just fucked up.

So I'm hoping people can hit me with some facts. I'm trying to respect the neighbors here but its endlessly frustrating when the banger I started on my headphones ends up sounding like a general MIDI polka on my monitors.

My suggestion: Get the Sennheiser HD 600s they have a very linear response (like monitor headphones should), but also sound divine! AND they are really comfortable! Like loafers on your ears
(And they go for 300, so you'd have 100 left for for example a headphone amp)

Regarding headphone amps: You can use them without (I do), but on audiophile forums they write that when using them with one it's like raising an extra thin veil.
It also has the effect that the linear behavior extends further to the low end of the spectrum than it already does.
I use them now without, but find that when I'm done mixing with them and start mixing on my monitors, there are always adjustments below 60Hz that I have to make.

But that's basically the only thing I still use my monitors for. Mixing with the headphones is just so much more fun

headphone comfort really depends on the size and shape of your head. HD600/HD650's don't work for me at all. definitely try before you buy...

I have 600 ohm Beyerdynamic DT-880's and read a lot about headphone amps being a requirement for them. I oftentimes use them plugged in directly to my audio interface and they're plenty loud - especially for production or casual listening. However, when I listen to them through the headphone amp, it makes it much, much clearer. While it's capable of getting much louder, it's not that I necessarily need more loudness. But the clarity from the headphone amp vs. straight from audio interface is amazing. And I think that's what people are talking about when talking about amps with higher-end headphones and driving them properly.

And btw, I have the MDR-7506's as well and use them for DJing. I don't know what you're talking about with them not being loud enough. They're plenty loud for my needs. I don't see why you'd need them any louder, especially for production?

The volume issue is probably the interface because I just realized the same headphones plugged into a Pioneer mixer are plenty loud to be heard over blasting mains. Let me guess, built-in headphone amplifier?

In that case my main problem is lack of low end and that is probably why I’m trying to turn them louder when producing. I get more low end from my $10 skull candy headphones, but I realize they are designed for that and aren’t good for production.

So a headphone amplifier is more about better overall sound (and volume)?

beats me wrote:In my current setup I'm using a NI Audio 6 interface (does the job) and Sony MDR-7506 headphones (great for DJing, shit for production).

I'm willing but unhappily looking at dropping about $400 on better headphones but I keep seeing this OHM thing coming up and that the headphones may not be loud enough and I may need to drop more money on a headphone amplifier. WTF? On top of $400? Yes, I realize there are much more expensive headphones, but com'on! Is there some decibel shortage that you have to pay a premium to acquire volume?

One of my issues is the Sony's aren't loud enough, but I don't think a headphone amplifier is going to turn them into the perfect production headphones. I'm not looking to make my ears bleed, but I would like to somewhat feel the music. I'm also not expecting to do all music production and mixing on headphones, but the way it is now if I start something on the headphones it doesn't even sound remotely close on my monitors, like it's a completely different song. That's just fucked up.

So I'm hoping people can hit me with some facts. I'm trying to respect the neighbors here but its endlessly frustrating when the banger I started on my headphones ends up sounding like a general MIDI polka on my monitors.

I believe the issue is electricity/power. In a nutshell:

Most USB interfaces can only draw so much power before they need a wallwart as well. Most USB interfaces therefore don't drive high impedance headphones hard enough, resulting in soft volume output. I have Sennheiser HD600s, and used to listen to them through an Edirol UA25 USB interface. With the volume turned up fully, it was perfect for monitoring/some mixing, which shouldn't be done loudly anyway, but not loud enough to always sit back and enjoy music/sound.

I now use my PodHD as the USB interface, but this needs a powerplug into the wall as well. At about half volume your ears start to hurt, any louder and you're asking for trouble.

The Edirol and the Pod both sound exactly the same. Just volume difference.

About the HD600s - they are extremely comfy, I wear them for hours every night, tough as fuck even though they weigh nothing, and they sound stunning. Close to neutral response, but dropoffs below 50hz or so and a dip and a raise here and there. Many studio engineers swear by these, although of course it's but one option of quite a few. You will not find true neutral headphones.

Oh, and reading reviews and questions on expensive headphones on consumer sites makes me

Are these good enough for my iPhone?
Are these better than Beats?

What 16-year-old has $400+ to spend on headphones? Anybody over that age asking the same questions is an idiot.

tedlogan wrote:

beats me wrote:In my current setup I'm using a NI Audio 6 interface (does the job) and Sony MDR-7506 headphones (great for DJing, shit for production).

I'm willing but unhappily looking at dropping about $400 on better headphones but I keep seeing this OHM thing coming up and that the headphones may not be loud enough and I may need to drop more money on a headphone amplifier. WTF? On top of $400? Yes, I realize there are much more expensive headphones, but com'on! Is there some decibel shortage that you have to pay a premium to acquire volume?

One of my issues is the Sony's aren't loud enough, but I don't think a headphone amplifier is going to turn them into the perfect production headphones. I'm not looking to make my ears bleed, but I would like to somewhat feel the music. I'm also not expecting to do all music production and mixing on headphones, but the way it is now if I start something on the headphones it doesn't even sound remotely close on my monitors, like it's a completely different song. That's just fucked up.

So I'm hoping people can hit me with some facts. I'm trying to respect the neighbors here but its endlessly frustrating when the banger I started on my headphones ends up sounding like a general MIDI polka on my monitors.

I believe the issue is electricity/power. In a nutshell:

Most USB interfaces can only draw so much power before they need a wallwart as well. Most USB interfaces therefore don't drive high impedance headphones hard enough, resulting in soft volume output. I have Sennheiser HD600s, and used to listen to them through an Edirol UA25 USB interface. With the volume turned up fully, it was perfect for monitoring/some mixing, which shouldn't be done loudly anyway, but not loud enough to always sit back and enjoy music/sound.

I now use my PodHD as the USB interface, but this needs a powerplug into the wall as well. At about half volume your ears start to hurt, any louder and you're asking for trouble.

The Edirol and the Pod both sound exactly the same. Just volume difference.

About the HD600s - they are extremely comfy, I wear them for hours every night, tough as fuck even though they weigh nothing, and they sound stunning. Close to neutral response, but dropoffs below 50hz or so and a dip and a raise here and there. Many studio engineers swear by these, although of course it's but one option of quite a few. You will not find true neutral headphones.

So if my interface can take a power adaptor that will help the volume issue? Not at home, but from pictures it looks like mine is USB powered only.

Reading up on the HD600 and HD650 it looks like the 650’s have a little more low end (colored)?

I don't know.

And yes, the HD650s have more low-end. I don't know if it's accurate response or coloured, and I haven't heard the 650s yet. It seems most tend to settle on HD600s for referencing, although many opt for the 650 too...preference I guess once you learn to judge with your headphones.

I do know the HD600s sound beautiful all-round and certainly don't lack bottom end/oomph/satisfaction.

Good to know. They’re only about $10 - $20 apart in price so you can’t use that as any kind of indicator. Sounds like in general music producers prefer the 600s while the audiophiles prefer the 650s.

beats me wrote:Sounds like in general music producers prefer the 600s while the audiophiles prefer the 650s.

I've been getting exactly the same impression from everything I've read.

tedlogan wrote:

beats me wrote:Sounds like in general music producers prefer the 600s while the audiophiles prefer the 650s.

I've been getting exactly the same impression from everything I've read.

ditto

So I guess I should get some 600s and then see (hear) if I need further amplification.

The thing I love about the NI interface is the giant main volume dial on the top and I’d hate to lose that on a different interface, but then would I be running a headphone amplifier between the headphones out on the interface and the headphones? Am I going to need to fidget with the controls on the headphone amplifier regularly or can I just hide it and use the volume knob on the interface?