I keep dreaming of a... delay effect with a sensible GUI

[mrdelurk]

I keep dreaming of a delay unit that has a huge sound like the Grand Canyon, and 4 interface elements along the lines of "Number of repeats", "Repeat Speed" "Repeat Softness" and "Background Rumble", not a 30 or more button confuse-o-rama.

The closest thing I saw so far is Loomer Resound, but it didn't have the Grand Canyon sound, it sounds like more like a big warehouse. Did I miss the right plugin?

[Stromkraft]

I keep dreaming of a delay unit that has a huge sound like the Grand Canyon, and 4 interface elements along the lines of "Number of repeats", "Repeat Speed" "Repeat Softness" and "Background Rumble", not a 30 or more button confuse-o-rama.

The closest thing I saw so far is Loomer Resound, but it didn't have the Grand Canyon sound, it sounds like more like a big warehouse. Did I miss the right plugin?

You find the filter delay interface overwhelming? You sure you want a delay with huge sound? I'm more looking for creating space, movement, thickening and rhythms.

Beyond Filter Delay I use Grain Delay, Dub Machines "Magnetic" and a few others. I added Native Instruments Replika just now, but haven't got round to use it so can't say anything about it really. Free this month out.


It's a pity TAL-Dub II didn't make it to 64bits. I'd have paid for it.

Loomer Resound, eh? You should check out Dub Machines.

[mrdelurk]

Thank you for the tip on TAL, Stromkraft, it sounds nice. It does need to be grouped into an effect rack with a reverb chain for a Grand Canyon-like rumble (the kind also used by EDM people for their breakdown impacts) but it's a step in the right direction. For Dub Machines, I'd need Max to run on this PC, so far that didn't happen.

I guess I should have qualified "sensible GUI" in my post title. It means, a delay that thinks like musicians. No musician I ever met said, "I need a delay with a click on the "8" rectangle with a synced 0.1% beat offset" or such cryptic stuff. They say "give me 4 soft repeats on eights" so if that's how most of us think, that's what the ideal delay in my book should have buttons for. (4, not 30).

[Stromkraft]

Thank you for the tip on TAL, Stromkraft, it sounds nice. It does need to be grouped into an effect rack with a reverb chain for a Grand Canyon-like rumble (the kind also used by EDM people for their breakdown impacts) but it's a step in the right direction. For Dub Machines, I'd need Max to run on this PC, so far that didn't happen.

Well, you should consider upgrading to Max For Live (Suite has Max For Live) if you don't have it, as there's also the Convolution Reverb and the Convolution Reverb Pro in M4L. I didn't get Altiverb because I discovered I already had these two built-in. Of course, it's very possible Altiverb or Waves IR use less CPU, but so far it worked out well for me. I'm working on a track now with some Eventide H3000 responses and they are sweet.

[stringtapper]

For Dub Machines, I'd need Max to run on this PC, so far that didn't happen.

What exactly are you talking about? Max 6 runs on Windows.

Well, you should consider upgrading to Max (Suite has Max) if you don't have it, as there's also the Convolution Reverb and the Convolution Reverb Pro in M4L.

Just so we're not confusing anyone it should be pointed out that "upgrading to Max" sounds a lot like what someone who already has a M4L license does when they buy the crossgrade to "upgrade to Max" standalone. Suite doesn't have Max. Suite has Max For Live. Even if you have a M4L license—which means you have Max installed but it can only run when you use it to edit M4L devices—you still can't use Max as a standalone app.

A bit pedantic, some might say, but I like to keep these things straight when I see them since Ableton and Cycling 74 have never seemed to work very hard at making things clear themselves!

[mrdelurk]

What exactly are you talking about? Max 6 runs on Windows.

I got the "Do you want to install PACE Anti-blah blah" during Max for Live install so I clicked "no". Got an install error dialog, dismissed it. In a nutshell, this was the career of Max on this PC.

[Steve Glen]

2C audio is supposed to be releasing a new plugin soon; I wonder if the plugin will be a delay unit.

Will probably be an audio effect. Whatever it is Im pretty excited about it.

[Stromkraft]

What exactly are you talking about? Max 6 runs on Windows.

I got the "Do you want to install PACE Anti-blah blah" during Max for Live install so I clicked "no". Got an install error dialog, dismissed it. In a nutshell, this was the career of Max on this PC.

Well, you are doing something wrong. Max for Live 6.1.9 does not require PACE! You need Max for Live 6, not Max 7.

[Stromkraft]

For Dub Machines, I'd need Max to run on this PC, so far that didn't happen.

What exactly are you talking about? Max 6 runs on Windows.

Well, you should consider upgrading to Max (Suite has Max) if you don't have it, as there's also the Convolution Reverb and the Convolution Reverb Pro in M4L.

Just so we're not confusing anyone it should be pointed out that "upgrading to Max" sounds a lot like what someone who already has a M4L license does when they buy the crossgrade to "upgrade to Max" standalone. Suite doesn't have Max. Suite has Max For Live.

This is completely irrelevant. You don't need Max to run Dub Machines (separate license) nor Convolution Reverb or any other Max for Live package that comes with Suite. This is a delay issue, not a Max issue.

[stringtapper]

Just so we're not confusing anyone it should be pointed out that "upgrading to Max" sounds a lot like what someone who already has a M4L license does when they buy the crossgrade to "upgrade to Max" standalone. Suite doesn't have Max. Suite has Max For Live.

This is completely irrelevant. You don't need Max to run Dub Machines (separate license) nor Convolution Reverb or any other Max for Live package that comes with Suite. This is a delay issue, not a Max issue.

You appear to have missed or inadvertently misconstrued the entire point of why I wrote what I wrote above.

It is entirely relevant in the context of the general public understanding the relationship between Max and Max For Live, how they are different (albeit inherently related) things, and how licensing and upgrades work between the two.

As for this:

You don't need Max to run Dub Machines (separate license) nor Convolution Reverb or any other Max for Live package that comes with Suite.

…but earlier you said this:

Well, you should consider upgrading to Max (Suite has Max) if you don't have it, as there's also the Convolution Reverb and the Convolution Reverb Pro in M4L.

Which is exactly what I was correcting in my earlier post, and which now you're acting as if you said all along, when the quote above clearly shows you didn't (i.e. you said "Max", not "Max For Live"). Understand? I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, I just often see a lot of confusion about the differences between Max and Max For Live and like to set them straight.

[login]

Dubmachines is great but quite cpu intensive.

Now about installing Max: if oy dont activate Max/MSP the PACE system doesnt get to work at all, it doesnt even completely install. Also Max dropped the PACE stuff on Max 7 and you can use max 7 as m4l engine if you dont edit the devices.

[Stromkraft]

Well, you should consider upgrading to Max (Suite has Max) if you don't have it, as there's also the Convolution Reverb and the Convolution Reverb Pro in M4L.

Which is exactly what I was correcting in my earlier post, and which now you're acting as if you said all along, when the quote above clearly shows you didn't (i.e. you said "Max", not "Max For Live"). Understand? I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, I just often see a lot of confusion about the differences between Max and Max For Live and like to set them straight.

Fair enough. I used Max as short hand for Max For Live and that is of course incorrect. Good catch! (Corrected post)

[Stromkraft]

Dubmachines is great but quite cpu intensive.

Considering I use it on an old slow machine with multiple other plug-ins like Convolution Reverb, I think most people can squeeze in at least one instance. Maybe not for Live gigs unless I can use it on a separate machine.

Waves Kramer Master Tape has a delay function and is on sale one more hour. T-Racks has a pretty good classic tape delay for guitars and stuff but it doesn't compare to Dub Machines. I didn't get either of those. Just Dub Machines. Didn't get H-delay or anything like that, but I guess it's good to have, but I think the built-in Live delays work for stuff like thickening and similar.

Does U-he Satin have a delay? I forgot.

[mrdelurk]

Also Max dropped the PACE stuff on Max 7 and you can use max 7 as m4l engine if you dont edit the devices.

So to find a simpler delay effect I might like, I could spend $399 on Max 7. Hmm. Somehow I'm starting to wonder if we are truly progressing towards simplicity and functionality with this...

[Stromkraft]

Also Max dropped the PACE stuff on Max 7 and you can use max 7 as m4l engine if you dont edit the devices.

So to find a simpler delay effect I might like, I could spend $399 on Max 7. Hmm. Somehow I'm starting to wonder if we are truly progressing towards simplicity and functionality with this...

I'm sorry if I was unclear that you just need Max For Live (comes with Live 9 Suite) in order to use M4L packages including delays, reverbs and other effects and instruments. You download the main MaxForLive installer from Ableton, not Cycling74, unless you update ahead of Ableton. I've never seen anything about PACE, so I doubt that is involved. Even if I am on OS X, I find it unlikely M4L would require PACE on Windows.

It's just the complete Max environment that requires stuff like that.