Ableton Forum

I know little about audio interfaces. When I bought my Yamaha HS80M monitors, I just bought the cheapest device I could find in shop right away to connect them to a Mac computer. It's a Behringer Xenyx 302USB.

I've been using this steup for about a year, and the clerk at the equipment shop is urging me to get an audio interface and recommends the Focusrite ones. He says:

- With the Xenyx, I am limited on volume outputs. It clips way too soon. Focusrite will give me more output power.
- The Xenyx's output is bad. The Focusrite gives me a light and day difference in the sounds outputted by the monitors.
- I get much noise with the Xenyx. I will get almost no noise with the Focusrite.
- The Xenyx will output at 16 bit. The Focusrite will output my sound at 24 bit if I remember correctly.
- It is better to connect the monitors using the jack outputs rather than RCA, which are balanced. Focusrite outputs with jacks, the Xenyx with RCA.

I'd like to confirm such notions as true and that a Focusrite is needed in order for me to monitor and mix my work professionally.

I always wondered why things like the Apogee Duet where that expensive...the clerk at the shop said the converter in that one are even superior to that of the Focusrite Scarlett, but what I really at minimum is the latter. I cannot think of continuing mixing and monitoring work with the Yamahas connected to that small mixer (which though, has a good preamp for capturing mic recordings and I might still use it for that).

Oh, he also said that the high volume bump I hear when I turn my monitor AFTER I turned my Xenyx on first and not viceversa, is because of the Xenyx and that wouldn't happen with a proper audio interface.

And that in the end I could have even skipped the mixer at all and just connect the Yamahas to the Mac's minijack output straight (I have quite a bit of doubt on this one).

All true? Cheers.

Almost everything he said is true, but you only need better sound if you think you do.

Most of the quality of what you hear will be due to the monitors and the acoustics of your room. If your mixes translate well to other playback systems, that is all that matters.

You didn't mention recording using the Behringer...if you are working 100% ITB (no mikes, no external instruments) the audio interface has zero effect on the audio quality of the final product anyway.

But yeah, you'll be blown away by the difference in sound quality between having your monitors connected to a Focusrite audio interface vs the Behringer mixer, especially since you're going from RCA connectors to balanced jacks. And if you are using a mic to record, the Focusrite preamps are much cleaner too.

The difference between 16-bit and 24-bit sound will be immediately apparent on your monitors as well.

purpleduck wrote: - The Xenyx will output at 16 bit. The Focusrite will output my sound at 24 bit if I remember correctly.

Stop right there. 16bit? We're in the early nighties now?

Of course you can still make great music with just about anything. I wouldn't go back to 16. I made a vocal recording in 16 bits by mistake last summer and have been suffering since when working on that one.

the real question is what you are using the soundcard for. if you are making tracks on it for playing on other systems than it doesn't really matter - you just have to learn what your mixes sound like on other systems. if you are using it in live performances then you should consider hpw you feel about line noise and hum - balanced outputs have less noise than unbalanced ones.

Richie Witch wrote:But yeah, you'll be blown away by the difference in sound quality going from RCA connectors to balanced jacks

Unless you have neon signs next to the computer you will hear zero difference. Balanced lines reduce induced noises like AC hum. There is no other sonic benefit.

Which was kind of the point I made in the first post. Sure the Focusrite will sound better but if it's playback only, it's really not as important as most people think.

BTW I own a Focusrite interface, it sounds great. But if I didn't need the input preamps, I would just use the built in audio of my Mac which sounds just fine.

Thanks for the replies guys.

The hum I get right now on the monitors is a bit annoying, and supposedly it comes from the mixer. Second, it would be nice to not have that burst of sound when turning the monitors on before I turn the interface on, as it happens now, forcing me to turn each monitor on and off every time - leaving their switches on would be nice - will this happen with the Focusrite?

Then, the output levels. I have read that is proportional to the output bits. So the Focusrite really is supposed to allow for higher output, as the Behringer truly converts at 16 bit, I just checked. Higher output would be very useful to me. Right now it clips too easily. Oddstep, would you be able to get proper output levels with no clipping or distortion just with the mac and no interface? I actually wonder.

I don't know if I'm doing things right in terms of gains structure though. I have found the best balance I could and that is the result. The headphone out also clips at very low level. Makes the headphone out on the mixer almost worthless. There yes, I think it goes better if I connect them straight to the Mac, but I don't do that as that would mean switching the audio output settings in the DAW. I just don't understand why the headphone out distorts that easily when using the mixer.

I also have the Behringer UCA222 interface that came with a midi keyboard, and I was getting much less noise and higher output with that one. But I hate the volume control there, so I kept using the mixer.

If the Focusrite will give me clearer output, less hum, and higher dBs with no clipping, then I'm going to buy it.

I record vocals and samples - I can use the better preamps as well.

purpleduck wrote:The hum I get right now on the monitors is a bit annoying, and supposedly it comes from the mixer. Second, it would be nice to not have that burst of sound when turning the monitors on before I turn the interface on, as it happens now, forcing me to turn each monitor on and off every time - leaving their switches on would be nice - will this happen with the Focusrite?

The mount of hum you get could be from the USB connection (i.e. the hum is coming from the computer, not the mixer). Balanced wiring will not help reduce it. Try this: disconnect the USB from the the mixer and see if you still get the hum in the speakers. If you do, the noise is coming from the mixer. Otherwise, it's coming from the ground in the USB cable. This is an incredibly common problem, you can find many threads about it right here in the forum.

You always turn amplifiers on last and off first. In your case, the amps are in your speakers. Develop that habit and soon it's second nature. Changing your interface will make no difference at all. Leaving your monitors on all the time (instead of only when using them) is not a good idea anyway if only because it wastes power.

I just don't understand why the headphone out distorts that easily when using the mixer.

It sometimes depends on the headphones you use, the impedance of some phones is high enough that the headphone amp simply can't push enough signal. I have some sweet Sennheiser phones which get nowhere near as loud as my crappy $10 Sony headphones....sure they sound much, much better but they require more juice to get as loud.

Headphone amps in most cheap devices are underpowered leading to clipping if you try to get really high levels in the phones. Pushing a lot of low end will also lead to premature clipping. Then again, you may simply not have the gain staging set up properly in your mixer.

Before you spend a penny on another interface you should do a lot more research, take everything the guy at the store says with a grain of salt (remember, he wants to sell you something!). Get an iron clad return policy on anything you buy, fifteen minutes after you plug it in and turn it on you will know ehether it solves your problems or not. It would suck if you paid hundreds of dollars and still have all the issues you have now...meaning maybe it's not the mixer at fault.

I'm no fan of Behringer but there's no sense spending money you don't have to.

Oh yeah but I meant leaving the SWITCHES on the monitors on - by then turning off the main power. But this means they will be turned on first when I turn on the main power socket and then turn on the computer with the attached interface, provoking that burst I have avoided since the very first times it happened. You say I should always turn them on last. Ok, then no leaving them switches on. Not a big deal.

I did the test you suggested. The hum comes through the monitors when the mixer is NOT attached to the computer. So, I guess that means it does come from the mixer. Can never come from the Yamahas themselves, right?

As said that other small Behringer interface I have seemed to erase the hum. But it is 16 bit (and has the horrible volume control that is very difficult to use - and one needs to use it a lot). What does 24 bit mean instead? Will the sound on output be more DETAILED? transparent? sound less compressed? Noise aside.

I'm all for not spending money. But the noise does come from the mixer. And it clips too soon with the monitors. And incredibly soon with the headphones. Now, the headphones don't distort as easily just by using the regular out on the Mac. That's why I blamed again the mixer.

"Headphone amps in most cheap devices are underpowered leading to clipping if you try to get really high levels in the phones."

I suspect the Focusrite will allow me to output at decent levels to the headphones. I use cheap cans just to know how it sounds there, as comparison. Sometimes I use it to compare the mix on a pair of regular multimedia speakers. No professional headphones. I don't feel I need them now. I prefer comparing on cheap stuff additionally to the Yamahas (so far, I have to say everything I do on the Yamahas translates very nicely!).

I thank you for trying to save me money doghouse, but I think an audio interface will help me with the hum and get me a better output on monitors and headphones too. Also, a better mic preamp will come very handy in the future. I don't think it will be money wasted. In the worst case I don't think it will be hard to resell it.

As for thegain staging for the headphones...there's nothing there. it goes straight to a single volume knob. When I push it everything becomes distorted, yes especially the lows prematurely. I think it's safe to say it simply sucks! It was so cheap after all. It would be nice if I could just spend 50 bucks instead of 100 for the interface, but for having a nice input and decent monitoring, I think it's money well spent.

Do you still doubt the interface will help me with the hum and headphone output, after this data? I did the test you suggested and turns out the mixer is noisy. This and the early clipping are the problems I want to solve. Look, I have no doubt that I can live with the Behringer mixer and make mixes with it. In facts how else I can educate myself on the matter? Buying the interface mught be worth it if just in terms of education. I can read as much as I like, but if I don't HEAR the difference between 16 nd 24 bit, I'll never know what they're talking about. I think I agree with myself on this one.

Also the topic of audio interfaces is so incredibly...confusing and boring, I just want to buy one and get over with it. It definitely won't make my mixes worse.

I surely would NOT buy a 500 bucks Apogee interface now - but I'm very, very curious to know as to what difference it makes - reading technical data doesn't help me there! I need to HEAR! But, I won't spend 500 bucks just for that. 100 for the Focusrite? Yes, I think I'll do it.

purpleduck wrote:If the Focusrite will give me clearer output, less hum, and higher dBs with no clipping, then I'm going to buy it.

Yes, yes, and yes.

You'll get better quality A/D-D/A converters, higher bit rate, better mic preamps, better line out quality--just better sound overall.

Just the fact that the converters are higher-quality will make a difference in how it sounds on your monitors and in your headphones.