Simple question about most efficient way to learn Ableton

[Thanks1111]

It's Me again.

I didn't realize that I could setup a poll so this will make this easier for everyone. But please feel free to explain why you think the option you recommended is a better choice. I say thanks you for your help from bottom of my heart.

I am purchasing Ableton Live 9 Suit and possibly Push this week. The only way for me to learn is by watching online videos. I purchased a course from Warp Academy called Jump Start and will be watching each module on my laptop and at the same time, going through the exercises on my Desktop which is where Ableton will be installed.

So my very simple question (I think it's simple) is this.

Am I better off learning Ableton just using my mouse & keyboard, or would you suggest I purchase "Push" from the get go and try to learn "Push" at the same time I am learning Ableton?

Please do NOT factor in money saved by purchasing a bundled package. I am a complete newbie in the world of DAWs and MIDI. I am afraid that I may become too overwhelmed trying to learn both Push & Ableton at the same time. The course I am taking does NOT focus at all on controllers until maybe the very last module.

I am going to let this community decide what's best for me by going with the majority of answers, whether it's use mouse/keyboard alone or use Push from very beginning.

I'm going to post same topic in the "Push" forum

Thanks again for taking time to read and respond to post. Means a lot to me.

BobbyD

[login]

Use Push from the beginning, for entering notes its easier than mouse and keyboard.

[re:dream]

When you say mouse and keyboard, do you mean mouse and qwerty keyboard - or do you mean mouse and MIDI keyboard (the one with the black and white keys)?

Push makes things a lot easier. Use it from the get go.

If you have a MIDI keyboard, it is not essential for you to get Push, but it will be a lot more fun.

If you have not been trained to play piano / keys, Push will also make it easier to jam and improvise.

There are some things (esp browsing, and a lot of tasks other than quickly sketching songs) that are more easily done with mouse and (qwerty) keyboard & looking at the screen, but which can be done with Push only (and not looking at the screen) - but it takes a while to learn.

[slatepipe]

You don't need a Push to learn Ableton. I haven't got one and I know Ableton pretty well. I already got loads of controllers anyway so I not got the need. And they're really heavy

You just need Ableton and a bit of time to learn Ableton. Good luck

[Thanks1111]

[quote="re:dream"]When you say mouse and keyboard, do you mean mouse and qwerty keyboard - or do you mean mouse and MIDI keyboard (the one with the black and white keys)?

Good question....I should have clarified that. I was referring to the small wireless keyboard that comes with my apple desktop. My main instrument is guitar, been playing 37 years, and eventually would love to add the new Fishman Tripleplay Wireless MIDI pickup as my second controller to be used together with Push. check it out: http://www.fishman.com/tripleplay. If I was to ever get a MIDI keyboard, it would be the new keyboard from native instruments which acts just like Push meaning with the turn of a knob, the c major scale (all white keys) can become an e flat harmonic minor scale. I am NOT a keyboard player so I figure would rather learn Push than keys.

Thanks for input

[Thanks1111]

You don't need a Push to learn Ableton. I haven't got one and I know Ableton pretty well. I already got loads of controllers anyway so I not got the need. And they're really heavy

You just need Ableton and a bit of time to learn Ableton. Good luck

I completely understand that point. Thanks. My question was if there is any advantage/disadvantage of using Push from the very beginning together with mouse/qwerty keyboard when first learning Ableton as a complete newbie? I plan on purchasing Push at some point in the future and wasn't sure if i should jump right in and use Push from the get go at same time trying to learn Ableton because I didn't want to overload my brain. As far as weight, Push will probably never leave my computer desk unless for a couple of years. Plus, it doesn't look like it's very heavy to carry around. But thanks for input. appreciate it.

[BoddAH]

I would advise learning both at the same time and observing the subtle interactions.

If there’s one thing that Live does well, it’s workflow. The quick and efficient way in which Live allows you to do complex tasks compared to other DAWs is its biggest strength. It can also be considered its biggest weakness because many people (myself included for a long time) don’t “get” Live and feel limited by the minimalistic approach and straightforward, performance-based workflow.

In truth however, what can first seem like missing features or less “powerful” tools are almost always conscious design choices by Ableton with the goal of turning Live more into a dynamic musical instrument than a boring Microsoft Office-like tool.

To understand this, Push is key since it takes this even further and integrates the vast majority of Live’s features into a relatively simple and straightforward device. Allowing you to turn every session into a living, dynamic performance.

Once you start drawing parallels between the way Live works and the way Push enables you to easily control all these mechanisms, everything becomes crystal clear and you can truly appreciate both as works of arts in workflow.

TL;DR:

Live was meant as a performance DAW fright from the start. To truly appreciate Live you have to learn using it with a controller and there’s no better controller for Live than Push.

[Thanks1111]

I would advise learning both at the same time and observing the subtle interactions.

If there’s one thing that Live does well, it’s workflow. The quick and efficient way in which Live allows you to do complex tasks compared to other DAWs is its biggest strength. It can also be considered its biggest weakness because many people (myself included for a long time) don’t “get” Live and feel limited by the minimalistic approach and straightforward, performance-based workflow.

In truth however, what can first seem like missing features or less “powerful” tools are almost always conscious design choices by Ableton with the goal of turning Live more into a dynamic musical instrument than a boring Microsoft Office-like tool.

To understand this, Push is key since it takes this even further and integrates the vast majority of Live’s features into a relatively simple and straightforward device. Allowing you to turn every session into a living, dynamic performance.

Once you start drawing parallels between the way Live works and the way Push enables you to easily control all these mechanisms, everything becomes crystal clear and you can truly appreciate both as works of arts in workflow.

TL;DR:

Live was meant as a performance DAW fright from the start. To truly appreciate Live you have to learn using it with a controller and there’s no better controller for Live than Push.

That was a great explanation. I am hoping the majority of community agree with you because I truly want to by Push from the get go and use it while learning Ableton. I just didn't want this approach to backfire on me because it may become too much of a learning curve trying to understand hardware and software at same time. Now that I think about it, worst case scenario is buy both, and if I feel using Push from the very beginning is too much on my brain, after I am done with two to three month course just using mpuse and qwerty keyboard, at that point I can than add Push into the mix. Thanks

[Stromkraft]

Am I better off learning Ableton just using my mouse & keyboard, or would you suggest I purchase "Push" from the get go and try to learn "Push" at the same time I am learning Ableton?

As many others I advocate both with the long time focus being on moving as as much to Push as possible. Sooner or later you need to gleen on the screen anyway so seeing Push as just another way of looking at your Live project is useful. You'll also need to understand Live in order to use Push most effectively so there's no escaping that.

[timday]

If you're goint to use Push anyway, learn it early. Same with keyboard shortcuts. It'll probably be slower to start with but you'll have a much better workflow after a month or two.

I teach, and I always try to make my students learn the keyboard shortcuts and control surfaces early. They hate it at first and thank me for it later.

[Thanks1111]

If you're goint to use Push anyway, learn it early. Same with keyboard shortcuts. It'll probably be slower to start with but you'll have a much better workflow after a month or two.

I teach, and I always try to make my students learn the keyboard shortcuts and control surfaces early. They hate it at first and thank me for it later.

Thanks for good advice. I saw a keyboard cover made for the Apple keyboard that goes over the entire keyboard and labels all the shortcut keys. Do you happen to use this? Also, I think I remember seeing another company online that sells individual key stickers that unlike the apple keyboard cover, each sticker is placed on each individual key. If you are familiar with either of these tools for making keyboard shortcuts easier to remember, I would love to know which one you use or recommend for your students. If possible, could you please send me the link. My memory happens to be terrible due to a traumatic brain injury (TBI) so anything that can shorten my learning curve to help me learn Ableton, like using my Apple keyboard, and if products are available to help memory, I am totally game for it. The keyboard cover I looked at about a month ago was not expensive, maybe $29 or $39. This is a great investment for me because you recommend using keyboard shortcuts along with mouse and Push. I do like the idea of starting off a little slower by using mouse, keyboard & Push, knowing that a year down the line, the initial time investment will be well worth it. For some reason, my mind was programmed for the longest time that with Push, it eliminates the need for a mouse or keyboard. All the videos I watched online show some young guy making amazing music without ever looking at a keyboard or touching a mouse. It's quite obvious to me now that the folks I see using Push to make music must have first learned Ableton with a mouse/keyboard. I wonder if anyone on this site actually learned Ableton by just using Push? The online video course I will be starting does not require the use of Push or any controller. Just a mouse & keyboard. I was a bit confused at first because of the mixed messages I was getting as to proper way to learn software. The feedback from the poll so far is 100% to use mouse/keys & Push. I think you are the first person that stressed the importance of also learning keyboard shortcuts. Must be because you are a teacher. I would guess that the majority of people on this site also know the keyboard shortcuts but didn't mention it because I never asked about it. All I want to do is have fun and make music. I am willing to pay my dues, but trying to do so in the most efficient and logical manner. Thanks again for your response.

[timday]

If you're goint to use Push anyway, learn it early. Same with keyboard shortcuts. It'll probably be slower to start with but you'll have a much better workflow after a month or two.

I teach, and I always try to make my students learn the keyboard shortcuts and control surfaces early. They hate it at first and thank me for it later.

Thanks for good advice. I saw a keyboard cover made for the Apple keyboard that goes over the entire keyboard and labels all the shortcut keys. Do you happen to use this? Also, I think I remember seeing another company online that sells individual key stickers that unlike the apple keyboard cover, each sticker is placed on each individual key. If you are familiar with either of these tools for making keyboard shortcuts easier to remember, I would love to know which one you use or recommend for your students. If possible, could you please send me the link. My memory happens to be terrible due to a traumatic brain injury (TBI) so anything that can shorten my learning curve to help me learn Ableton, like using my Apple keyboard, and if products are available to help memory, I am totally game for it. The keyboard cover I looked at about a month ago was not expensive, maybe $29 or $39. This is a great investment for me because you recommend using keyboard shortcuts along with mouse and Push. I do like the idea of starting off a little slower by using mouse, keyboard & Push, knowing that a year down the line, the initial time investment will be well worth it. For some reason, my mind was programmed for the longest time that with Push, it eliminates the need for a mouse or keyboard. All the videos I watched online show some young guy making amazing music without ever looking at a keyboard or touching a mouse. It's quite obvious to me now that the folks I see using Push to make music must have first learned Ableton with a mouse/keyboard. I wonder if anyone on this site actually learned Ableton by just using Push? The online video course I will be starting does not require the use of Push or any controller. Just a mouse & keyboard. I was a bit confused at first because of the mixed messages I was getting as to proper way to learn software. The feedback from the poll so far is 100% to use mouse/keys & Push. I think you are the first person that stressed the importance of also learning keyboard shortcuts. Must be because you are a teacher. I would guess that the majority of people on this site also know the keyboard shortcuts but didn't mention it because I never asked about it. All I want to do is have fun and make music. I am willing to pay my dues, but trying to do so in the most efficient and logical manner. Thanks again for your response.

I don't use the keyboard covers because compared with other applications like Pro Tools there aren't really very many key commands and they aren't that hard to learn. Having said that, if you've had a TBI it might be a very useful thing for you, and as you say, it's cheap.

As far as Push goes, I learned first with mouse/keyboard/key commands because when I learned to use Live, Push didn't exist. As a result I'm finding it harder to adapt to Push than some of my students who used it from the off. I'm not the best person to ask for push advice as I'm still learning it myself and don't know all it's capabilities yet. So I think they're right, if you want to use Push start off with it. You can do most stuff with Push as far as I can tell but not everything, especially in the arrange view.

[Steve Glen]

Learn one thing at a time!!!!

With push in front you'll miss so much.

[tkarmakid]

It also comes with a manual which I have found pretty handy at times. If you are a newbie, You'd be remiss not to at least thumb through it.

[Thanks1111]

I did it. I know own Live 9 Suite and Push. Thanks everyone for your valuable feedback.

Quick Question?

I ordered Live & Push directly from Ableton and installed Ableton on my old 13 inch Apple laptop. I finally got my Imac back from Apple and want to downlaod Ableton but I can not find Serial Number in confirmation email. Anyone Know where it may be? I was told I can install it on two computers but can't seem to find serial number.

I am changing my user name (thanks1111) and will post my new name and also share my progress in my new journey.

Thanks Everyone

BobbyD