DJing "dumbed down"... ?

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:53 pm

I don't get it. Live was easy to use before (it just had more steps). Now users don't have to convert to wav/aif and manually warp. Auto warp takes the time out of it, but Live DJing was still dead-easy before...

... so why is Live 5 NOW "dumbing down" DJing? I thought the "suparstar" DJs did that YEARS ago... and Live just made it easier.

I remember when I had to make drop-shadows in Photoshop 2 with masks, then on layers, then with layer effects... it seemed then that everything would come with the obligatory drop shadow/bevel/glow/effect... it did but it lasted about 5 months before the new /latest toys go played out and obvious and the real talented designers/retouchers shown thru again as they did when it was just those elite that could do all the cool trix...

... I mean, so what. All technology will eventually make all things equal, and the unequal will rise above. Who cares if its easier for the monkeys (like me), the talented ones ALSO get to do it easier, and spend more time doing good things and less time doing the automatable/repetative tasks...

... am I missing something?

supster · Post by **supster** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:04 pm

kabuki wrote: ... am I missing something?

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

Livewire · Post by **Livewire** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:05 pm

everyones tired of this subject already dude. just like the mac-pc thing. it gets old sorry.

StompyJ · Post by **StompyJ** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:07 pm

especially cause this happens in every genre of music ever created.

I thought we were supposed to learn from history?

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:21 pm

Livewire wrote:everyones tired of this subject already dude. just like the mac-pc thing. it gets old sorry.

Sorry, let me be more clear...

I agree with Livewire. It IS old and boring.

What Montrealbreaks said in his post is dead on, but really, it's like saying the sky is blue and the ocean has water in it. I am not arguing that. I saw the thread and some of the responses are a bit confusing...

My point is: who cares? Whooptie do. Live makes it easy now. It never was all that hard in the first place. And since its inception, Live (or Tractor, Mixman etc) haven't inundated us with crappy mixes and hacks on laptops doing sets down at the local club. (They were already there with Trance-anthem of the year # 4563-The Digweed Zombie Mix).

If we are gonna get deluged with all this stuff, it would have already happened. If it STILL does, then it won't be long before the real talent is all that is left anyway, as the hacks get bored and move on to the next fad.

People seem to act as if Live 5 makes it easier or something.

I seem to be rambling, but I really don't get the "dumbing down" rants.

That is all. Sorry if I bored you.

conny · Post by **conny** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:43 pm

Before photography, painting portraits was a living and was expensive.
When photography arrived, painted portraits became exclusive but are still done and paid for.
Art and technology and idreas are adaptive to each other (and to some degree that will also depend on the "market").
Making electronic music in the 50's required technical skills, expensive tape recorders, hardware oscillators...
Printing a text in 1880 required...
Sending a message cross country in 1523 required...

The threat of nivellation for "serious" artists because things are made "easier" is a good thing, because the strive for quality and originality have to move on.

// C

roby · Post by **roby** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:05 pm

you know, i dont agree with this statement, and i dont think it should be a put down of a great app. i guess this subject is boring and tired, but for me this is the first time i see it (i've been a Live user/forum member for only a few months).

progress will always make things easier for us all. if everyone starts to think that progress is evil then there wouldn't be microwaves and calculators and buses. what ever happened to the abacus and the hard work of making fire, the domesticating of horses and mules and camels?!?!?!
you're always gonna have a billion copycats and unonriginal artists and just a few inspired peeps making original stuff. i mean, look at how many paitings of Jesus and the Last Supper are there!!!! but only a few get recognized as true masterpieces.

so with this natural progression of Live into version 5, yes, we will see alot of peeps making generic music with, but i believe that in the end only the ones that make serious musical statements will live long happy musical lives. in the end it's all about what you make of it, not concerning what others do.

my 3 cents yo

Kas. · Post by **Kas.** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:45 pm

It´s still not clear to me how the world would be improved if you needed to be very intelligent to DJ. Amusingly, IDM is proabably one of the styles hardest to auto-beat-detect....... I´ll be in the basement dancing to hardcore if anybody needs me.

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:56 pm

roby wrote:you know, i dont agree with this statement, and i dont think it should be a put down of a great app. i guess this subject is boring and tired, but for me this is the first time i see it (i've been a Live user/forum member for only a few months).

progress will always make things easier for us all. if everyone starts to think that progress is evil then there wouldn't be microwaves and calculators and buses. what ever happened to the abacus and the hard work of making fire, the domesticating of horses and mules and camels?!?!?!
you're always gonna have a billion copycats and unonriginal artists and just a few inspired peeps making original stuff. i mean, look at how many paitings of Jesus and the Last Supper are there!!!! but only a few get recognized as true masterpieces.

so with this natural progression of Live into version 5, yes, we will see alot of peeps making generic music with, but i believe that in the end only the ones that make serious musical statements will live long happy musical lives. in the end it's all about what you make of it, not concerning what others do.

my 3 cents yo

AMEN (The gospel holla, not the break beat)

conny · Post by **conny** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:57 pm

Kas. wrote:It´s still not clear to me how the world would be improved if you needed to be very intelligent to DJ.

Maybe the world would be improved if people were more intelligent, I don't know.
Read yesterday something Abe Lincoln said, something like "God must have liked ordinary people, because he made so many of them". I sympatize with that...

// C

conny · Post by **conny** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:00 pm

And, these discussions are often wrapped in concerns about quality etc but the bottomline often shows out to be: How can I motivate my fee for this work, if "everyone" can do it.
That's something to be aware of before getting to deep into evolution theories.

// C

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:04 pm

conny wrote:And, these discussions are often wrapped in concerns about quality etc but the bottomline often shows out to be: How can I motivate my fee for this work, if "everyone" can do it.
That's something to be aware of before getting to deep into evolution theories.

// C

NOW I get it.

gomi · Post by **gomi** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:16 pm

kabuki wrote: ... so why is Live 5 NOW "dumbing down" DJing? I thought the "suparstar" DJs did that YEARS ago... and Live just made it easier.

if you are insecure, maybe you could try pushing the envelope more.

for instance, set up triggers and various capture devices for midi in a venue
and let the crowd mix in realtime - without even knowning it.

their is more to it then drag and drop if you want it.

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:39 pm

gomi wrote:
kabuki wrote: ... so why is Live 5 NOW "dumbing down" DJing? I thought the "suparstar" DJs did that YEARS ago... and Live just made it easier.
if you are insecure, maybe you could try pushing the envelope more.

for instance, set up triggers and various capture devices for midi in a venue
and let the crowd mix in realtime - without even knowning it.

their is more to it then drag and drop if you want it.

Nothing to be insecure about. Supastar=pop. Pop=mass-marketed. Mass marketed = lowest common denominator. LCD = simple as possible. Simple =
stupid/dumb/etc.

But that WOULD be cool to rig a dancefloor with MIDI sensors so that the more movement on it (dancing) the faster the tempo, deeper the bass, harder the drums etc.

That WOULD be very cool.

roby · Post by **roby** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:10 pm

that's true about pushing the envelope too.
they way i (try) to see it is: just laugh at the mediocre stuff and push the envelope yourself. bitching about does not achieve anything. also think of it this way, can u imagine if everyone in the entire world tried to push the envelope??? there would be so much 'originality' it would probably be redundant and mind-numbing, and then there would be a backlash of just a few peeps who want thinks to be 'simple' and with 'soul.'

DJing "dumbed down"... ?

DJing "dumbed down"... ?

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Re: DJing "dumbed down"... ?