Ableton Forum

Can someone explain to me what gain is?

Gain is an increase or boost. It can be used to describe an increase in volume, but is not limited to just volume.

For example, Gain on a guitar amp is often used as a label on a knob that increases distortion.

hth

DeeJay1657 wrote:Can someone explain to me what gain is?

As H2Only showed, there can be different applications to the word Gain. Please explain what context you are referring to? On a mixer? on an Amp? etc

Da hand wrote:

DeeJay1657 wrote:Can someone explain to me what gain is?

As H2Only showed, there can be different applications to the word Gain. Please explain what context you are referring to? On a mixer? on an Amp? etc

For example, the external instrument shows gain, and on my EQ8s it also has a gain control.

I mainly bring this up because I have EQd a kick drum that sounds perfect in the mix with my monitor headphones, but when I upload it to soundcloud, or play it over my speakers, the kick is way too thumpy and rattles my speakers. Can I fix this by simply lowering the gain?

You might be able to fix it by lowering the gain.

Part of the idea around mixing is to set the sonic stage for all the elements in your track. When you're doing this, you need to be able to hear a true version of the audio. So a flat response is what you are looking for in headphones and monitors.

Trying to mix with beats by Dre headphones, for example, will make it difficult to mix your low frequencies because those headphones are designed to boost the lows. So if you mix with them, it's likely that your track will sound weak on headphones that do not attempt to manipulate the audio in the same way. Mixing with a set of monitors with a flat response gives the track the best chance of sounding good on the most varieties of speaker. It allows the listener's beats by Dre headphones to color the track by boosting the bass they way they were intended to... after the fact.

what kind of monitors and headphones are you mixing with?

H20nly wrote:You might be able to fix it by lowering the gain.

Part of the idea around mixing is to set the sonic stage for all the elements in your track. When you're doing this, you need to be able to hear a true version of the audio. So a flat response is what you are looking for in headphones and monitors.

Trying to mix with beats by Dre headphones, for example, will make it difficult to mix your low frequencies because those headphones are designed to boost the lows. So if you mix with them, it's likely that your track will sound weak on headphones that do not attempt to manipulate the audio in the same way. Mixing with a set of monitors with a flat response gives the track the best chance of sounding good on the most varieties of speaker. It allows the listener's beats by Dre headphones to color the track by boosting the bass they way they were intended to... after the fact.

what kind of monitors and headphones are you mixing with?

Audio Technica M40x.

i have AT M50 and love em. as far as i can tell, you should be able to do just fine with M40x.

so, with that out of the way, you can focus on the mixing in your track. sorry for the side track, but it is important to know what you're working with if you want to get help.

DeeJay1657 wrote:For example, the external instrument shows gain, and on my EQ8s it also has a gain control.

I mainly bring this up because I have EQd a kick drum that sounds perfect in the mix with my monitor headphones, but when I upload it to soundcloud, or play it over my speakers, the kick is way too thumpy and rattles my speakers. Can I fix this by simply lowering the gain?

one thing i do to combat this kind of thing is after i mix a track on my monitors and headphones, i then try it on everything else i can that's available to me; earbuds, $10 crappy PC speakers, laptop audio, burn to disc and try in it in the car, use Bluetooth stream from my phone in the car, listen on phone and/or phone accessories. the idea being to check the track and see how it translates and make the track work as well as possible on all speakers.

i think that you need to focus on how EQ works. maybe brush up on some tutorials or books that speak to it at length. you can boost the levels on an EQ but it can be arguably better to simply use subtractive EQ and lower the levels overall, then boost the master volume for the track.

also, you could simply need to cut some of the lowest frequencies... like everything under 50 Hz, for example.

DeeJay1657 wrote:For example, the external instrument shows gain, and on my EQ8s it also has a gain control.

These are important for gain staging - adjusting gain between devices of a signal chain. You can massage the quality of the result quite a lot by determining how hot the next device is fed, prevent unwanted distortion by feeding it lower, introduche wanted distortion by feeding it hotter - all depending on the character(istics) of this next device. Live's Utility device has a gain control that can help, if the output stage of your previous device has none.


Basic article on the subject: Gain Staging In Your DAW Software on Sound on Sound.

chrk wrote:Basic article on the subject: Gain Staging In Your DAW Software on Sound on Sound.

Nice

Too much thump in a kick can usually be fixed by a bit of careful EQing.

There is often a peak in your kick frequency in the 80-120 hz range that can cause quite a lot of resonant 'honking' in the kick. Lowering that a tad can help your kick sound solid without cutting too much of the volume.

A lot of kicks these days have a ton of subsonic information below 50Hz too. You can usually use EQ to reduce this by a few dB's, leaving the meat of the kick people will hear intact, but also taming some of that subsonic information to avoid noise from systems that cant handle it.

DeeJay1657 wrote: I mainly bring this up because I have EQd a kick drum that sounds perfect in the mix with my monitor headphones, but when I upload it to soundcloud, or play it over my speakers, the kick is way too thumpy and rattles my speakers.

You might need to handle the attack of the kick better. Check out Transient Designer if you have Max. It could also be that you need to simply do a more laid back gain structure. My beats improved considerably when I took up gain staging.

It could also be that you need to compress differently (or not at all) or that you are having multiple tracks in the mix, like kick plus bass, that together adds too much of certain frequencies. EQ is the answer there.

Actually EQ is one of the more important tools a music producer need to master. I'm currently struggling with this even as I have been using EQs for a very long time. I've set aside specific sessions to go really deep into learning the finer details of EQ and do ear practice with my mixes as I've now found I really need to exercise better control over the frequency spectrum if I want my mixes to transfer well.

Stromkraft wrote: Check out Transient Designer if you have Max. .

Wow, thanks!

Tarekith wrote:A lot of kicks these days have a ton of subsonic information below 50Hz too. You can usually use EQ to reduce this by a few dB's, leaving the meat of the kick people will hear intact, but also taming some of that subsonic information to avoid noise from systems that cant handle it.

Yes! I find a cut of a few dBs with a shelving EQ really helps in many situations, even as I can't hear below 50Hz really with my monitors. In the studio I can and used to be my mixes were overly bass-heavy when I arrived with a new track there until I focused in on the problem.

re:dream wrote:Too much thump in a kick can usually be fixed by a bit of careful EQing.

There is often a peak in your kick frequency in the 80-120 hz range that can cause quite a lot of resonant 'honking' in the kick. Lowering that a tad can help your kick sound solid without cutting too much of the volume.

Its mainly the low end of the kick, in my analyzer, its peaking at 47.1 hz.