Ableton Forum

Is Ableton blocking controller mfrs. from implementing features to preserve Push sales?

That is the only explanation (besides pure stupidity) that makes sense to me at this point.

1. The omission of Session Overview for clip launch controllers (the APC Mini, and APC Key 25)
2. More importantly, the omission of InKey scales for the Launchpad series (ESPECIALLY Launchpad Pro)
3. The omission of 8x8 matrices in Ableton Live as pads for note racks (which could also be used to trigger chords.)

All of these would be relatively easy to implement in a Midi Remote script (Stray has implemented Session Overview in the APC Mini, available in beta at NativeKontrol) Mots implemented Note Modes in Launchpad95 which works great for the original versions of Launchpad (Up to Launchpad Mini original), but the MK2 versions are not supported, as well as Launchpad Pro.

Thus, the Launchpad Pro is practically worthless in Note Mode, compared to a keyboard. Fabrizio (ISO_J74) has implemented note mode, but you have to go into Programmer mode to use it, rather than implementing it in User Mode. It is true that LP Pro is "open" to programmers implementing it in firmware for User mode, but this is very dangerous to develop and to implement for users. And it would be easy to for Ableton to make Midi Scale devices that would intercept notes from the C Major Scale from Launchpad Pro, and configure them to an 8x8 Matrix for inkey scales (eliminate the accidentals, and adjust the remaining C Major octave by remapping them to chromatic, and then assign them to pads for each scale).

Therefore, the only explanation (other than sheer stupidity) that makes sense to me is that it is a conscious decision by Ableton to hamstring the non-Push controllers for use with Live. The 8x8 InKey of Push is so useful, and has far-reaching consequences, suggests that Ableton is blocking it, either legally or by making Live inaccessible to the controller mfrs.

I love Ableton, and think they have provided great service to beat makers; and even keyboard players, although the doubled notes in the Midi Scale Devices are really, really stupid in their attempt to dumb them down to beginner performers so they don't "make mistakes" by accidentally hitting accidentals...

But if it is true that they have blocked these developments, then I think it is extremely short sighted, and a real disservice to the future of music performance (if not production). Push is too big and sensitive to drag around to gigs, and the Launchpad Pro would be perfect if InKey scales were implemented on the grid (Plus being able to drag/drop Midi Notes and even chords onto an 8x8 matrix in Live.

IMO, YMMV, of course....

No

Cheers
D

No, and Nativekontrol.com is a good example.

Ok, then it may be just sheer stupidity after all....

That said, NativeKontrol is not relevant, because they are not hardware manufacturers, and Stray's script should have been implemented in Live when the APC Mini was released.

Akai makes the APC Mini, not Stray. And there is still the APC Key 25 without Session Overview.

S4racen wrote:No

Cheers
D

Ok, then it is just sheer stupidity (especially the worthless Midi Scale Devices.

(Although I am speaking of hardware manufacturers, not the software guys that hopefully will implement these features that Ableton should include natively as 8x8 matrix Midi Devices, not the worthless 12x12 Midi Scale Devices)

IMO, YMMV - I am still suspicious, and would like to hear from Akai and Novation (but I probably wouldn't believe them anyway)...

In any case, until Note Mode is implemented with scales as with Push, the Launchpad Pro is going back again....

As rude as you are with your complaints, if I were head of Ableton I would make sure none of these features were implemented until right after you kick the bucket in a couple of years.

Jesus.

stringtapper wrote:As rude as you are with your complaints, if I were head of Ableton I would make sure none of these features were implemented until right after you kick the bucket in a couple of years.

Jesus.

I think of it as tough love, trying to make Ableton better. (I will say that only true musicians are interested in scales and keys); others just beat off in rhythm

It took a year or more for Stray and S4racen to implement Session Overview, and it should have been Ableton/Akai right from the start.

I heard that in the afterlife, Ableton Live is a free complimentary program.

And the browser indexes your hard drive for eternity

Akai should hire Stray. But obviouly they lack the vision.

But you must also consider than not all user are interested in much more features, I suspect the average user is happy with the products as they are.

I have friends who got Push and consider it pretty complex, they even took a course something that for me would be unthinkable as I found Push quite simple.

Buleriachk wrote:

stringtapper wrote:As rude as you are with your complaints, if I were head of Ableton I would make sure none of these features were implemented until right after you kick the bucket in a couple of years.

Jesus.

I think of it as tough love, trying to make Ableton better. (I will say that only true musicians are interested in scales and keys); others just beat off in rhythm

It took a year or more for Stray and S4racen to implement Session Overview, and it should have been Ableton/Akai right from the start.

http://isotonikstudios.com/sigabort/akai-apc-mini-xl/

Actually took a few days, it requires the default behaviour to be switched off for when you press the Shift button, you can choose to continue to move the grid in one track by one scene or in banks of 8 x 8...

You won't hear from Novation or AKAI on here, they know of you well Buleriachk....

Cheers
D

S4racen wrote:

Buleriachk wrote:
I think of it as tough love, trying to make Ableton better. (I will say that only true musicians are interested in scales and keys); others just beat off in rhythm

It took a year or more for Stray and S4racen to implement Session Overview, and it should have been Ableton/Akai right from the start.

http://isotonikstudios.com/sigabort/akai-apc-mini-xl/

Actually took a few days, it requires the default behaviour to be switched off for when you press the Shift button, you can choose to continue to move the grid in one track by one scene or in banks of 8 x 8...

You won't hear from Novation or AKAI on here, they know of you well Buleriachk....

Cheers
D

Kudos to both Isotonik and NativeKontrol for eventually providing a solution to this problem (I know it didn't take long to actually program the change; that is the point). Personally I prefer Stray's implementation, since I would never, ever use incremental movement of the grid, and his version allows me to select that default behavior in the user options text file, without changing anything else. That allows me to use Midi to change the behavior of the scene launch keys to control transport and tempo using Clyphx in Live.

But Isotonik's solution works really well if you need to switch from incremental to bank movement in real time.

(I don't know why Akai didn't include basic transport in the APC Mini, that said, it is nice to have Master track, which many other controllers don't include)

Send my love to Akai and Novation if they feel hurt and slighted (Ableton already knows I love them; I am just trying to train them properly . I just think they should hire a few musicians (or at least consult with them. Well, ok, musicians that actually play instruments and gig.... in real situations under performing pressure. But that's just me, YMMV

Touchable supports Inkey and Fixed so its doable.

ssante wrote:Touchable supports Inkey and Fixed so its doable.

As well as many other apps and lemur templates.

There are also other less known controllers that have scripts as Livid instruments.

Buleriachk wrote:Akai and Novation

Why exactly aren't they primarily responsible for how their own products work with Live? I don't see how you are thinking here, nor do I understand why this wasn't posted at their user forums and if it was, why this wasn't linked to here.

I'm with you on the musician thing believing that they do work with playing and performing musicians from time to time, but when seeing certain features lacking it is tempting to believe they couldn't have.