Convert to midi track looses sound quality

[frontmanbeats]

Hello

I am using a loop from Loopmasters mixtape pack. It's called 2020_RL_125_DrumLp6.aif. When I convert it to a MIDI track, it looses its rich sound. What am I missing ?

[jlgrimes]

Thats kind of the point.

Converting to midi will no longer play the original sound. The sound quality will be determined by the Instrument playing the midi part (and a combination of the programmers skills).

Typically if you are converting a live instrument, the conversion will tend to sound worse since you will have a synthetic synthesizer trying to imitate a realistic instrument (or a cheap sample library imitating a realistic performance).


But a good sound designer or producer can usually program a emulation to sound pretty realist (or use a good sample library).


Even a good sample library can miss some details in some areas. But you would be amamzed on how some keyboardist can emulate instruments using playing technique (pitch bend, fingering, modulation techniques) even for crappy sample libraries.

[frontmanbeats]

Thats kind of the point.

Converting to midi will no longer play the original sound. The sound quality will be determined by the Instrument playing the midi part (and a combination of the programmers skills).

Typically if you are converting a live instrument, the conversion will tend to sound worse since you will have a synthetic synthesizer trying to imitate a realistic instrument (or a cheap sample library imitating a realistic performance).


But a good sound designer or producer can usually program a emulation to sound pretty realist (or use a good sample library).


Even a good sample library can miss some details in some areas. But you would be amamzed on how some keyboardist can emulate instruments using playing technique (pitch bend, fingering, modulation techniques) even for crappy sample libraries.

Thanks for your reply. The function "Slice to MIDI track" in Ableton is making a new drumrack with the sampled loop AND converting the loop to MIDI. What I dont get is why there is so much difference in the sound from the original source ?

[LukeLSB]

the sound quality shouldn't diminish

what you possibly have to look at the is the envelopes, particularly if there is attack as this will smear the transients. Also you might need to move the slice points a bit to ensure they strike at the perfect time.


the loop might have some time streching on it which makes it sound more cohesive, so keep that in mind, but the sound shouldn't significantly diminish just by putting it in a midi sampler

[H20nly]

Thats kind of the point.

Converting to midi will no longer play the original sound. The sound quality will be determined by the Instrument playing the midi part (and a combination of the programmers skills).

Typically if you are converting a live instrument, the conversion will tend to sound worse since you will have a synthetic synthesizer trying to imitate a realistic instrument (or a cheap sample library imitating a realistic performance).


But a good sound designer or producer can usually program a emulation to sound pretty realist (or use a good sample library).


Even a good sample library can miss some details in some areas. But you would be amamzed on how some keyboardist can emulate instruments using playing technique (pitch bend, fingering, modulation techniques) even for crappy sample libraries.

Thanks for your reply. The function "Slice to MIDI track" in Ableton is making a new drumrack with the sampled loop AND converting the loop to MIDI. What I dont get is why there is so much difference in the sound from the original source ?

maybe i'm missing/forgetting something here, sorry if so...

after slicing to MIDI shouldn't middle C on a keyboard controller be the only "original" sound, while the rest of the keys play a pitched up/down variant? is this what you are experiencing?

not sure where the "middle C pad" would be on a drum rack and/or Impulse, etc... but i would think that only one pad would contain the original unaltered sound.

[beats me]

maybe i'm missing/forgetting something here, sorry if so...

after slicing to MIDI shouldn't middle C on a keyboard controller be the only "original" sound, while the rest of the keys play a pitched up/down variant? is this what you are experiencing?

not sure where the "middle C pad" would be on a drum rack and/or Impulse, etc... but i would think that only one pad would contain the original unaltered sound.

You are missing something. Slice to MIDI chops the sample, so in simplest terms first key kick, next key hihat, next key snare, etc. Not the entire loop played on every key at different pitches.

[Richie Witch]

The function "Slice to MIDI track" in Ableton is making a new drumrack with the sampled loop AND converting the loop to MIDI. What I dont get is why there is so much difference in the sound from the original source ?

What you're comparing here are two completely different things.

"Slice to MIDI" track takes the original sample and cuts into little pieces and assigns each piece to a MIDI note. Think of it as a sampled instrument. You're making the existing timbres/instruments available to you to create your own MIDI seequence.

"Convert to MIDI track" analyzes the sample and calculates the MIDI data that would be required to recreate the groove, beat, chords, or note sequence of the sample--not the timbre. In other words, the intent is that you need the MIDI data (not the sample) so that you can assign your own instrument to the data. It allows you to completely change the MIDI data to suit your own needs while maintaining the original flow, groove, or feel of the original sample.

Yes, "Convert to MIDI track" does provide a vaguely similar instrument to the original sample, but this is only for purposes of auditioning the data so that you can test whether the conversion was successful. The next step would be to replace that default instrument with something of your own.

Consider this as an example.

I have four hi-hat beats from four different sample packs. I really like these four beats, but I can't use them in the same song, because the four hi-hats have very different timbres. However, I can convert each one to a MIDI track, grab a hi-hat sample that I really like, and now I can play all four beats with the same hi-hat sound. Now they *will* fit into a song together perfectly.

If I had just one hi-hat beat, and I really liked the hi-hat sound (timbre) but wanted to change the beat, I could "Slice to MIDI" and just change the groove without changing the timbre of the hi-hat.

[H20nly]

maybe i'm missing/forgetting something here, sorry if so...

after slicing to MIDI shouldn't middle C on a keyboard controller be the only "original" sound, while the rest of the keys play a pitched up/down variant? is this what you are experiencing?

not sure where the "middle C pad" would be on a drum rack and/or Impulse, etc... but i would think that only one pad would contain the original unaltered sound.

You are missing something. Slice to MIDI chops the sample, so in simplest terms first key kick, next key hihat, next key snare, etc. Not the entire loop played on every key at different pitches.

ok, that sounds right... too.

i must be forgetting an option or mode (maybe something in what Richie Witch described) because i know i've sliced/converted James Brown (and other) samples to MIDI and got the results i described. it's just been a while...

Jame Brown says: "Alligator" & "Get on up" in some chipmunkish ways on an old track of mine

[frontmanbeats]

The function "Slice to MIDI track" in Ableton is making a new drumrack with the sampled loop AND converting the loop to MIDI. What I dont get is why there is so much difference in the sound from the original source ?

What you're comparing here are two completely different things.

"Slice to MIDI" track takes the original sample and cuts into little pieces and assigns each piece to a MIDI note. Think of it as a sampled instrument. You're making the existing timbres/instruments available to you to create your own MIDI seequence.

"Convert to MIDI track" analyzes the sample and calculates the MIDI data that would be required to recreate the groove, beat, chords, or note sequence of the sample--not the timbre. In other words, the intent is that you need the MIDI data (not the sample) so that you can assign your own instrument to the data. It allows you to completely change the MIDI data to suit your own needs while maintaining the original flow, groove, or feel of the original sample.

Yes, "Convert to MIDI track" does provide a vaguely similar instrument to the original sample, but this is only for purposes of auditioning the data so that you can test whether the conversion was successful. The next step would be to replace that default instrument with something of your own.

Consider this as an example.

I have four hi-hat beats from four different sample packs. I really like these four beats, but I can't use them in the same song, because the four hi-hats have very different timbres. However, I can convert each one to a MIDI track, grab a hi-hat sample that I really like, and now I can play all four beats with the same hi-hat sound. Now they *will* fit into a song together perfectly.

If I had just one hi-hat beat, and I really liked the hi-hat sound (timbre) but wanted to change the beat, I could "Slice to MIDI" and just change the groove without changing the timbre of the hi-hat.

Thanks for clearing that out. The slice to MIDI track function is what I'm doing : )

[jlgrimes]

The function "Slice to MIDI track" in Ableton is making a new drumrack with the sampled loop AND converting the loop to MIDI. What I dont get is why there is so much difference in the sound from the original source ?

What you're comparing here are two completely different things.

"Slice to MIDI" track takes the original sample and cuts into little pieces and assigns each piece to a MIDI note. Think of it as a sampled instrument. You're making the existing timbres/instruments available to you to create your own MIDI seequence.

"Convert to MIDI track" analyzes the sample and calculates the MIDI data that would be required to recreate the groove, beat, chords, or note sequence of the sample--not the timbre. In other words, the intent is that you need the MIDI data (not the sample) so that you can assign your own instrument to the data. It allows you to completely change the MIDI data to suit your own needs while maintaining the original flow, groove, or feel of the original sample.

Yes, "Convert to MIDI track" does provide a vaguely similar instrument to the original sample, but this is only for purposes of auditioning the data so that you can test whether the conversion was successful. The next step would be to replace that default instrument with something of your own.

Consider this as an example.

I have four hi-hat beats from four different sample packs. I really like these four beats, but I can't use them in the same song, because the four hi-hats have very different timbres. However, I can convert each one to a MIDI track, grab a hi-hat sample that I really like, and now I can play all four beats with the same hi-hat sound. Now they *will* fit into a song together perfectly.

If I had just one hi-hat beat, and I really liked the hi-hat sound (timbre) but wanted to change the beat, I could "Slice to MIDI" and just change the groove without changing the timbre of the hi-hat.

Thanks for clearing that out. The slice to MIDI track function is what I'm doing : )

The key thing to remember when slicing to midi is if you are using Warping (which you probably are), you should freeze your track first, then copy to a new audio track, then slice. If you don't do this chances are your sliced midi loop will sound really strange.


The Slice to Midi doesn't take into account the Time Stretching/Compressing of the Warps when slicing. Freezing the audio applies the Warping which should sound very close to your sound after you slice.


The other alternative is to make sure you set the tempo of the project properly before slicing (I can't remember if you can slice with Warping Turned off, if so that would be another option).

[yur2die4]

Actually, sliced bits might warp with tempo now. Making freeze unnecessary

But I haven't explored the options yet. You would probably have to make an updated slicing preset first.