Ableton Forum

Hi

Can anyone using M4L Beatseeker in a live performance setup please tell me how they are setting up their snare mic to trigger Beatseeker?

My band tried using Beatseeker tonight at rehearsal for the first time with very poor results. We've previously been using a click track which the drummer listens to with headphones but occasionally the click can get lost in the overall volume of the band. Beatseeker seemed a good solution but it's fallen far short of expectation.

We've tried close micing the snare from both below and above and with very low gain on the mic (so it doesnt pick up other drum/band noise) and with high gain (to really pick up the snare). We're using a Shure SM57.

We tried starting the song with Beatseeker in listening mode and the drummer following the click as usual and he's drumming very steady and very close to the click... shortly after the song starts we switch Beatseeker to active listening mode but the tempo of the Ableton track either drops or speeds up right away ... the backing track sounds drunk as the tempo swings all over the place and doesnt follow the drummer at all.

I was wondering if the reason might be that the mic is picking up all sorts of other signals and beats (eg. toms, kick drum etc) and is confusing the tempo. Our rehearsal room is quite small but is treated with acoustic foam so it's loud but not boomy. We thought that maybe a solution would be to use a piezo trigger taped to the snare so we get the pulse without interference.

Can someone who uses Beatseeker with a live drummer please tell me how they have set it up ... also, how do you start the song and switch on Beatseeker ... do you let the drummer settle into the song before switching over or have it going from the get go?

Any advice would be great... Thanks!!

I suggest that you increase the gain on the mic. In terms of mic placement, try the wurst position where it is close to kick and snare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Bh3D_Pvt8&t=40

From what you say, it sounds like it's not getting the right signal. Do the three lines of the speaker icon light up okay? Have you tried a simple setup first, like an empty set?

if you record the channel, how does the signal sound that you're sending it? you could put a gain on the channel if it is low for some reason.

can you check buffer size and latency compensation settings? Make sure, for instance, that it syncs to an easy drum machine signal okay.
I notice your previous post is about there being a high amount of latency in the audio chain and using driver error compensation:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=218429&p=1681010#p1681010

Have your latency / driver settings issues been resolved ?

Venetian wrote:I suggest that you increase the gain on the mic. In terms of mic placement, try the wurst position where it is close to kick and snare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Bh3D_Pvt8&t=40

From what you say, it sounds like it's not getting the right signal. Do the three lines of the speaker icon light up okay? Have you tried a simple setup first, like an empty set?

if you record the channel, how does the signal sound that you're sending it? you could put a gain on the channel if it is low for some reason.

can you check buffer size and latency compensation settings? Make sure, for instance, that it syncs to an easy drum machine signal okay.
I notice your previous post is about there being a high amount of latency in the audio chain and using driver error compensation:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=218429&p=1681010#p1681010

Have your latency / driver settings issues been resolved ?

Hi Venetian

Thanks for your suggestions.

We tried using Beatseeker in a very simple setup where no one else in the band played and the drummer simply kept time hitting the snare in time to the Live track. It seemed to keep time OK and we thought that the problem had been solved. Unfortunately, the device wasnt able to lock on once the band started which got me thinking that the mic was picking up all sorts of false triggers.

We've mic'd from above and below the snare and with low and maximum gain on the mic.

Latency wasn't an issue as I was using a very well-behaving low latency Mac (my other ports regarding latency concerned my main PC which for some reason, doesn't like either my Focusrite 2i4 or 6i6.... big problems with both of them).

The Beatseeker device was able to listen to the drummer (3 lines on the speaker icon) ... I think the device is working but it's just getting way too confused once the whole band kicks in ... god knows its hard enough for us poor human musicians to concentrate with all that noise

I'll keep trying but your suggestion about putting a gain on the channel is a good one and I'll try that too.

thanks again for your post.

You can also make a simple piezzo mic for 2$, stick it to your kick drum and send this signal to Beatseeker.
Even better, you take a stereo jack: one piezo onto the kick drum, one onto the snare and you send this stereo signal to Beatseeker!

[jur] wrote:You can also make a simple piezzo mic for 2$, stick it to your kick drum and send this signal to Beatseeker.
Even better, you take a stereo jack: one piezo onto the kick drum, one onto the snare and you send this stereo signal to Beatseeker!

Hi Jur

yep.... I think a piezo is the way to go ... our rehearsal room is small and our drummer is manic so it can get pretty ugly in there...

The stereo output is a good idea - will give it a try.

cheers.

One way to test latency would be to send the click track back into BeatSeeker.

You shouldn't need to use piezos, although I'm sure they'd work okay. If you want to send me a recording of the drums live, I can have a look into it?

RadioOnMars wrote:One way to test latency would be to send the click track back into BeatSeeker.

You shouldn't need to use piezos, although I'm sure they'd work okay. If you want to send me a recording of the drums live, I can have a look into it?

Hi Mars
I think we'll give the piezo mic a try ... there's definitely a strong signal coming into Beatseeker from the 'normal' mic we used but as I mentioned, the sync breaks down from the moment you switch Beatseeker over from listening mode to active mode ... it seems to drop about 1 or 2 beats so that you're effectively half a bar out of sync... the tempo also struggles to keep up with the drummer (slows down then speeds up then slows again...)

I could be that there are other triggers being picked up (eg from the kick) ... if the piezo doesnt work I'll go back to the drawing board.

Thanks for the offer to send you a recording of the drums but unfortunately we don't record rehearsals (we just brag to our family and friends just how great we sound )

cheers

You could also eq the signal you send to Beatseeker with a narrow band pass, only picking the stronger component of the snare.

madlab wrote:You could also eq the signal you send to Beatseeker with a narrow band pass, only picking the stronger component of the snare.

Thanks Madlab .... a very good idea!!