Ableton Forum

I know this has been discussed before, but I don't use Ableton the same way most do I think, so looking for more personalized advice. I don't perform live very often, but I've got a couple of shows coming up and considering purchasing either a Push or APC40 to replace the Novation Remote 25SL I've used in the past. I like the keyboard and faders on the 25SL, but it's not great for launching clips and it's also been buggy for me; the last time I played I had to reboot my computer a couple of times before it would recognize Ableton and give me control.

I was set on getting the new APC40, but then started looking at the Push, as I could get a used original one for about the same price. Unfortunately I'd lose the faders with that, and just have to mix with the track knobs, but I'd be gaining the screen which would really help I'd think when editing effect parameters; I also adjust warp parameters like "detune" manually, and it looks like this is easy with the Push. Playing live I usually have about 60 clips to choose from spread out over 10 tracks in session view that I mix in and out of, eq on each track I can adjust, along with some effects to add in via the sends, and a softsynth like Omnisphere turned on to play here and there a bit. One that that I can't tell about the APC40 is if I can switch over to more than 8 tracks; even if I can though, I assume it would be complicated since there isn't a display to know what the tracks are. And maybe that answers my question, as I really need to be able to do this, and not be confused about what tracks I'm working with, and it does seem that wouldn't be a problem on the Push.

I make ambient music, no sequencing, and I do wonder if I'll find much use for the Push in the studio; I do use Ableton there mostly too, recording sessions of loops running through effects that I manipulate manually, but perhaps it would even make that easier for me, with less mousing. If anyone has any insight, I'd appreciate hearing it. Also, if I do get the Push, I assume that for my uses the new version might be overkill, and the older one would be plenty for me, but opinions on that would be helpful too. Thanks!

as a former apc40 user and current push user, it sounds like you should probably go for the push. as you mentioned. the apc40 might be a littler bit easier for mixing purposes - the push interface for tweaking EQ, volume etc is clunky IMO but you could always map around it if it's a big problem. with that said, i think the versatility and control you'd gain on a granular level with the push would be hugely helpful in your case and definitely worth the trade-off. not to mention acting as a midi keyboard as well if you're playing softsynths as part of your show too. production wise, i never found the apc40 to be of use at all in the studio whereas i keep my push with me at all times when i might be producing a track. night and day difference on that front

the best answer as usual is go to guitar center and try out both, but if i were you i'd probably just get the push

It's a tough call because you're sort of in both camps with what you need. You can do what you want with Push 1 I think, but it's going to take a lot of jumping around on different screens to really get that level of control in different areas. So on that hand, it depends on how much work you want to be doing during the set. Because with Push 1 I think you're going to have to spend some time getting used to where everything is ahead of time to make it feel fluid.

You could use macros and racks and such to simplfy things a bit as mentioned, but then you getting close to where the APC will shine. The APC will give you a nice simplified interface with a lot of controls, but having some sort of consistant layout in your songs helps A LOT to get the most out of it. I've kept with a pretty similar set up in terms of track layout for my live sets over the years, so not having a screen on hand to see what everything is called doesn't always present much issue.

The downside of Push 1 IMVHO is that the screens show all the information in a very unified way, just basic LED style text for the most part. So you can't just glance at it and quickly tell what you're controlling with it. Or at least it was an issue for me. Push 2 is a lot better in this regard, so navigating around different areas of the program while you're performing just feels more fluid and predictable. You have to think about it less, it's quicker to get an idea and make it happen with Push 2.

It's still not as simple and standardized the APC though, either version of Push will require more navigating and less control over the set as a whole at any one time. You gain depth at the expense of a greater overall view of your set with Push.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies, I appreciate it. And going to Guitar Center to check them out sounds like a good idea, think I'll do that after work today. I think you're right Tarekith, and either way I'll sacrifice something. I do suppose the APC would let me do 80% of what I want, and make that part really simple. Can either of you tell me if the APC allows you to move over to additional tracks, or are you limited to control of only 8 tracks? That might end up being enough this time, but I've used more in the past and would be good to have that flexibility. I've looked online but haven't found a solid answer for this question.

You can set the focus of the APC in groups of 8 tracks at once, or one by one. So you can definitely use a LOT f tracks if you want.

Tarekith wrote:You can set the focus of the APC in groups of 8 tracks at once, or one by one. So you can definitely use a LOT f tracks if you want.

Thanks, I just watched an Akai demo video that did show how this is done, along with a couple of other things I like.

Fyi, I wasn't able to try the Push (should have known better than to think GC would have one set up), and was leaning towards the APC, but a Push showed up for $200 on ebay, with a hard case, so I grabbed it. Figure even if it turns out not to be my thing, I have nothing to lose at that price, so worth a shot. Wondering though, If I really miss the faders, could I add a Korg NanoKontrol, or would that not work right with the Push? If it did work, I could have the best of both worlds..... off to research that now.

bloodbox wrote:Fyi, I wasn't able to try the Push (should have known better than to think GC would have one set up), and was leaning towards the APC, but a Push showed up for $200 on ebay, with a hard case, so I grabbed it. Figure even if it turns out not to be my thing, I have nothing to lose at that price, so worth a shot. Wondering though, If I really miss the faders, could I add a Korg NanoKontrol, or would that not work right with the Push? If it did work, I could have the best of both worlds..... off to research that now.

Seems like a good deal. I'd be shocked if you couldn't map a nanokontrol to use in addition to the push. Happy pushing