Ubermap for Push 2 (VST/AU parameter remapping)

[Soulimano]

Yes, perfectly working now !

I will tests things more deeply now, with banks and try empty paramters.

[tom_d]

Yes, perfectly working now !

I will tests things more deeply now, with banks and try empty paramters.

Thanks, look forward to your feedback... I get too excited adding new features to ever test properly, so apologies in advance for any bugs!

[tom_d]

Little preview of what is coming next, something I hacked together just now – still got a little bit to tidy up on it but should be finished soon: custom parameter value types for parameters which have discrete values - no more "what filter type is 0.23?!"

[peterswimm]

Awesome! Was just about to test that. Loaded it up and it happily used all my existing mappings. Would it be possible to read Icon states so you can have a visual view of the value being a triangle or square or something like with ableton synths?

Also would love Color definitions for discrete values or banks. above the track color.

[tom_d]

Would it be possible to read Icon states so you can have a visual view of the value being a triangle or square or something like with ableton synths?

It is technically possible (and indeed I made it happen by accident when playing around!) but quite tricky to do it properly, as it involves changing not just the Python MIDI Remote Scripts but also the QML code that powers the Push 2 Display. I would like to add it at some point but not yet I don't think

Also would love Color definitions for discrete values or banks. above the track color.

Colour is a great idea, I'll look into whether that is possible. What exactly were you thinking, each bank could be a different colour?

[peterswimm]

Yea either by bank or by discrete object (like filter cut and res a different color)

One other thing I was thinking right now is with the buttons it would be possible to have subfolder banks:

IMAGE REMOVED~

So for example along the bottom you could have the top level folders for this FM synth with GLOBAL, FILTER, MIXER, OPERATORS

And when you click on OPERATORS the top row of buttons can select OP1 OP2 OP3 etc

For an Analog synth you could do

OSCs, LFO, ENVs Mixer

And then if a synth has multiple instances of one of those, then you could have subfolders along the top for both

OSC 1 OSC 2

Would make breadcrumbing easier for stuff that requires lots of banks.

[peterswimm]

It is technically possible (and indeed I made it happen by accident when playing around!) but quite tricky to do it properly, as it involves changing not just the Python MIDI Remote Scripts but also the QML code that powers the Push 2 Display. I would like to add it at some point but not yet I don't think

That reminds me is one of the m4l synths opfour happily sends its osc shape waveform to the push with ubermap, so I assume its using some m4l object natively that supports mapping those values?

[tom_d]

Yea either by bank or by discrete object (like filter cut and res a different color)

One other thing I was thinking right now is with the buttons it would be possible to have subfolder banks:

So for example along the bottom you could have the top level folders for this FM synth with GLOBAL, FILTER, MIXER, OPERATORS

And when you click on OPERATORS the top row of buttons can select OP1 OP2 OP3 etc

For an Analog synth you could do

OSCs, LFO, ENVs Mixer

And then if a synth has multiple instances of one of those, then you could have subfolders along the top for both

OSC 1 OSC 2

Would make breadcrumbing easier for stuff that requires lots of banks.

That's a great idea, I had been thinking about using the top buttons for on/off switches but using them for "banks of banks" is a really cool idea. Not sure how easy to do it would be though but I will put it on the wish list

Could you please remove or resize the image from your post as it's huge?

[tom_d]

It is technically possible (and indeed I made it happen by accident when playing around!) but quite tricky to do it properly, as it involves changing not just the Python MIDI Remote Scripts but also the QML code that powers the Push 2 Display. I would like to add it at some point but not yet I don't think

That reminds me is one of the m4l synths opfour happily sends its osc shape waveform to the push with ubermap, so I assume its using some m4l object natively that supports mapping those values?

Interesting, I'll have a look at that, I guess that is how it works. The issue with VST/AUs is most (all?) only expose parameters as floating point numbers between 0 and 1, I don't even know if you can support different types of value (text, on/off, etc) with VST/AU or not - so with the upcoming new version of Ubermap, you have to tell it what options there are (and optionally at which position that option starts, e.g. Filter LP starts at 0.0, HP at 0.125, if it's not evenly spaced), but then they work like that, which makes a big difference to usability. I'll try and release it this evening after a bit more testing and documenting!

[peterswimm]

Done! Sorry about that! I'm going get cracking on testing and uploading my scripts ive made so far.

The issue with VST/AUs is most (all?) only expose parameters as floating point numbers between 0 and 1, I don't even know if you can support different types of value (text, on/off, etc) with VST/AU or not

Well at least if its a deal breaker kinda thing one could always make a m4l plug that all it does is pass the cc's to the vst with whatever things are available to m4l plugs,

[tom_d]

Done! Sorry about that! I'm going get cracking on testing and uploading my scripts ive made so far.

The issue with VST/AUs is most (all?) only expose parameters as floating point numbers between 0 and 1, I don't even know if you can support different types of value (text, on/off, etc) with VST/AU or not

Well at least if its a deal breaker kinda thing one could always make a m4l plug that all it does is pass the cc's to the vst with whatever things are available to m4l plugs,

Not a deal breaker at all, it just means you need to manually tell Ubermap which values a parameter has but it's easy to configure.

Going to look at doing something a bit more high tech than a forum thread for sharing people's Ubermap configs, especially with Push 2 and the new features I've got planned I think it's possible to make some really great ones. Almost like having something like an OP-1 or Elektron (in terms of a few physical knobs combined with an intuitive UI) but with a bigger screen and unlimited sound palette

Got to say I am really impressed with Push 2 so far, if any Ableton peeps read this, great work!

[peterswimm]

If anything, we could just stick them in a folder on the github.

[tom_d]

If anything, we could just stick them in a folder on the github.

Yeah that is definitely an option. I might see if I can throw a quick web app together to make it a bit more user friendly though

[Soulimano]

Nice news Tom with theses push screen "hacks" for parameters. Very usefull and promising. I don't know if you could manage the on/off ergonomy as well, because it's not the best in my opinion for now on push.

Using knobs to on/off a parameter is not the best, using push buttons (upper or bottom screen) instead would be better.

If you are able to hack screen for on/off "icons" and could program buttons to manage theses binary values, that would be great.

This would be usefull for program changes as well.

I explain myself : How to change sounds on a vst plugin from push, like it's possible on many midi keyboard controller (bank+ bank-)

Today it's possible to add some max4live effects to call a program change on a vst and change soundbanks or sounds program value with it. But then it's only possible to control program changes values via a knob on push wich is not very accurate to scans sounds banks.

How about using some push buttons to increase/decrease a program change call ? (objective is changing VST sounds via +/- buttons on push).



I know its probably nothing to do with ubermap main idea, but if screen hack is possible, an ergonomy update can be welcome as well.

Just some ideas here

[tom_d]

Nice news Tom with theses push screen "hacks" for parameters. Very usefull and promising. I don't know if you could manage the on/off ergonomy as well, because it's not the best in my opinion for now on push.

Using knobs to on/off a parameter is not the best, using push buttons (upper or bottom screen) instead would be better.

If you are able to hack screen for on/off "icons" and could program buttons to manage theses binary values, that would be great.

In the new version coming soon, On/off and other parameters with "fixed" values can be mapped as a list of values rather than as a single knob - see the example at viewtopic.php?p=1698235&sid=dd8032224ad ... 4#p1698235. This does still use the knob, in the same way as e.g. changing oscillator on Operator with the Ableton mapping does, but is a lot more natural. Ideally I would like to use buttons for this as well, but need to research into this more!

How about using some push buttons to increase/decrease a program change call ? (objective is changing VST sounds via +/- buttons on push).

I know its probably nothing to do with ubermap main idea, but if screen hack is possible, an ergonomy update can be welcome as well.

Cool idea, I will note it down... generally I'm interested in making Push as cool to use as possible and experimenting with new ideas so let me know if you have any more ideas! Some things are obviously easier to implement than others, but if anything is too experimental or too different from the main idea, I'll split it off into a separate module that can be installed on its own, so no worries!