Ableton Forum

I've scoured the internet for Operator banks that have Yamaha / DX11 / TX81Z sounds to no avail.

I would love to have access to some patch specifications from these synths so that I can recreate
them in Operator.

I also know that by replicating the specs 1:1 you might not get that sound but again...are there any
TX81Z / DX11 banks. Or banks that are closer to the Yamaha sound than the Operator factory bank?

Found some single patches here and there ... the Lately Bass, Solid Bass.

neeve82 wrote:I've scoured the internet for Operator banks that have Yamaha / DX11 / TX81Z sounds to no avail.

I would love to have access to some patch specifications from these synths so that I can recreate
them in Operator.

I also know that by replicating the specs 1:1 you might not get that sound but again...are there any
TX81Z / DX11 banks. Or banks that are closer to the Yamaha sound than the Operator factory bank?.

That's an intriguing prospect, but I think you will find very little. Secondarily because I think the interest in recreating those Yamaha presets is slim, and primarily because I think Operator isn't sufficient to mimic any DX-synth close enough. Operator is not a Yamaha clone. It is it's own thing.

That doesn't mean someone couldn't or hasn't already tried, so keep looking. Maybe there are presets that are interesting enough in the way you hope for.
I'm very happy with FM8 myself and I also do FM with Z3TA+ 2. There are some sounds in Operator that are very hard to recreate also on those, so it certainly has some strengths.

Hi,

you are right, the DX11 is subsumed in its capabilities to the Operator - that means Operator should be able to do all DX11 sounds in theory, minus the special sound you get from the DX D/A converters. But only a few seminal, individual sounds have ever been recreated by enthusiasts - some people seem not to be able to live without Lately Bass.

For that classical DX sound and tons of patches, there is always the free Dexed for which you can find >10.000 patches in the Web - but all from the DX7, not the DX11...

Best,

K

for patch guidelines you could try to find a DX librarian sofware and patches to load into it. then you could see how the patches are made and attempt to recreate them.
note that i haven't tried this so no idea if it's actually possible!

garyboozy wrote:for patch guidelines you could try to find a DX librarian sofware and patches to load into it. then you could see how the patches are made and attempt to recreate them.

A quite nifty idea on the surface. Your general idea here is sound. You learn quite a lot about synths with analyzing a patch/preset in one synth and recreating it in another synth (or in another instance of the former).

Unfortunately I think the values and ranges are different and even if they'd be the same the actual rendered sound will not be very close except for maybe very simple patches. Even small variations can render large differences with FM in many types of sounds.

But I'd encourage anyone to try anyway. Experimenting is the best way to learn I think.

I don't mean to say this isn't possible to do, just that you likely need to have access to the original synth to be able to get closer to the original sound.

neeve82 wrote:banks that are closer to the Yamaha sound than the Operator factory bank?

Found some single patches here and there ... the Lately Bass, Solid Bass.

Maybe this is a good candidate for an open sourced project? Recreating patches is hard work to do on your own. Maybe if there are others working on this sharing the load it could get a significant number of patches made in a reasonable time?

Personally there are very few Yamaha factory presets I remember liking. I have access to some DX7 sounds in FM8 and I hardly use these.

A library of generally classic FM sounds would be nice for the community though.

I think I can get access to a DX11. Not sure if I've knowingly heard it.

Hate to bring the competition into play but to tell you the truth Propellerhead's PX7 is
the only DX emulator out there (except the more recent Dexed) that declares it's legacy
to the DX7 family. The PX7 factory patches even include the whole DX7 IID factory bank
recreated and it really sounds amazing.

The rest of the pack wanted to focus on a more contemporary aproach to FM and it's possibilities.
Not to be blamed though.

Probably try reverse-engineering the Dexed versions of the favorite presets into Operator.

If it seems annoyingly challenging, you'll see why not everyone is lining up to take on the challenge

Stromkraft wrote: I think I can get access to a DX11. Not sure if I've knowingly heard it.

Though it seems there are sysdumps of the DX11 here on the sysexdb site.

Talking about standards I think chances are that Rhino from Big Tick Audio might stand a good chance of being able to recreate DX sounds. I don't see any preset libraries dedicated to this though.

A review here at: Soundbytes Magazine says that

"DX7 patch libraries can be directly imported and put to immediate use"

I'm not sure you can do that with the demo though, as I had trouble opening Simon Cann's (author of "How To Make A Noise") patches with the demo.

But if you had it you could possibly and hopefully listen to how the patches are supposed to sound. On the other hand if you had Rhino why would you want to recreate patches in Operator? I'm not sure but to be able to listen to the presets are quite likely critical.

https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/

Thank me later.


And..........

It's free.

kb420 wrote:https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/

Thank me later.

And works in Live 64bit! Very nice! I'd like to thank you now for mentioning this tasteful addition.

Operator is up for a match. Though I still think Operator should be seen as it's own thing. I've tried to get the fat and subby basses I want on Operator, but so far only FM8 allows me to get there. I haven't tried much with the new filters in Operator though, but it would seem they sound wild and nice but not so fat. I feel the same for the MFL synth Bass. I'm sure others can cram out great sounds from these though. I don't have the patience.

It would be interesting to compare a DX7 directly to Dexed. The analog circuits are missing in most other products pertaining to DX7 territory and you can't get away from that in the DX7. Also DX7 mk I has 12bit DACs, which also is bound to affect the final sound. I'm not sure whether the "Analog" control in FM8 is supposed to mimic that, but sometimes it adds a little something.

I'm much into Additive Synthesis these days, but FM is still very special to me and combinations with different synthesis is indeed interesting even as it's hard enough to develop great FM-oriented sounds with only sines.

Stromkraft wrote:

kb420 wrote:https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/

Thank me later.

And works in Live 64bit! Very nice! I'd like to thank you now for mentioning this tasteful addition.

This reminds me to really use more exclamation marks, bold and/or red fonts more, as I mentioned Dexed eight (!!!) posts before the kb420 gentlemen with the Github link.

ZaBong69 wrote:

Stromkraft wrote:

kb420 wrote:https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/

Thank me later.

And works in Live 64bit! Very nice! I'd like to thank you now for mentioning this tasteful addition.

This reminds me to really use more exclamation marks, bold and/or red fonts more, as I mentioned Dexed eight (!!!) posts before the kb420 gentlemen with the Github link.

Heh! I! missed! that! Sorry!

I think maybe the link made me realize I actually didn't know what it was even as I probably reflected over the name in your post. Links are stronger than names I suppose. Thank you to you as well! Very useful mention.

neeve82 wrote:I've scoured the internet for Operator banks that have Yamaha / DX11 / TX81Z sounds to no avail.
.

If DX7 patch compatibility and possibilities is also of interest checking out the Korg Volca FM is only natural. I don't know if it can open patches from other Yamaha FM synths. Sure seems interesting.