Ableton Forum

Hi,

I'm new to M4L and I'm loving it's potential but I have a few things that make me scratch my head.

First of all the Mono Sequencer that comes with Ableton's M4L Essentials.
Why doesn't the Volume drop to mute when bringing the step velocity all the way down.
I don't want to deactivate the steps in the bottom row. I want to use the velocity page
only in order to write the steps.

I know Kontakt and Reaktor have these kind of sequencers. As you can see in the image
those steps in between the ones with higher velocity can still be heard...

If this Mono Sequencer can't work like this is there another sequencer in the user library
that works like this?



Also is there a MIDI multi-track sequencer that you can place before a drum rack and would
behave like this (velocity style seq)?

neeve82 wrote: the Mono Sequencer that comes with Ableton's M4L Essentials.
Why doesn't the Volume drop to mute when bringing the step velocity all the way down.

Likely because the instrument in question isn't set to allow velocity to affect volume that much. The sequencer only generates MIDI data. It's your job to set up how the instrument behaves to the MIDI.

exactly. if you'll look at the screen show you'll see that i set the instrument (the 808 kick) to have the velocity equal the volume.
afaik when this is set zero velocity means mute volume.

interestingly enough the only way to do this is to set the volume of the device to minimum.
it works this way, but i can't get very high volumes using max velocity in mono sequencer.

one other thing i've done to test live's strange behavious. i've loaded a bassdrum sample
into a simpler, set the vel > vol to 100%, set the volume of the simpler device to minimum
(-36db) and set the notes velocity in the triggered clip to minium (which is 1 not 0).

outcome: there is still a very faint sound to be heard as you'll see in the mixer meter.

neeve82 wrote:interestingly enough the only way to do this is to set the volume of the device to minimum.
it works this way, but i can't get very high volumes using max velocity in mono sequencer.

one other thing i've done to test live's strange behavious. i've loaded a bassdrum sample
into a simpler, set the vel > vol to 100%, set the volume of the simpler device to minimum
(-36db) and set the notes velocity in the triggered clip to minium (which is 1 not 0).

outcome: there is still a very faint sound to be heard as you'll see in the mixer meter.

because you are still hitting a note...how do expect there to be absolutely no sound if you are hitting a note....your hitting a note...and -36 dB isnt absolute silence...dB levels are just different sound pressure levels....-36 dB isnt silence...its just very tiny pressure level, the only way to get absolute silence is in a vacuum where soundwaves cant travel anyway...

its like if you hit a drum as faintly as possible, it will still sound.....just very quietly.....

you simply cant expect there to be no sound when hit a key, unless you just use a gate....

what i dont like about the mono seq is that you cant midid mapp any of the important things, like note pitch, note velocity or even at least be able to map the arrow buttons that let you shift the patter left and right or up and down

Inversoundzzz wrote: you simply cant expect there to be no sound when hit a key, unless you just use a gate....

Well you can, provided the instrument in question can be set to respond to velocity of 0 with nothing.

neeve82 wrote: I don't want to deactivate the steps in the bottom row. I want to use the velocity page
only in order to write the steps.

In your case I suppose the simplest solution would be a MIDI filter that could strip away all notes with a velocity of 0 by only allowing notes with a velocity of 1-127. That would give you what you want without the need of setting up Instruments that might not be able to respond to velocity 0 with no sound.

Inversoundzzz wrote:

neeve82 wrote:interestingly enough the only way to do this is to set the volume of the device to minimum.
it works this way, but i can't get very high volumes using max velocity in mono sequencer.

one other thing i've done to test live's strange behavious. i've loaded a bassdrum sample
into a simpler, set the vel > vol to 100%, set the volume of the simpler device to minimum
(-36db) and set the notes velocity in the triggered clip to minium (which is 1 not 0).

outcome: there is still a very faint sound to be heard as you'll see in the mixer meter.

because you are still hitting a note...how do expect there to be absolutely no sound if you are hitting a note....your hitting a note...and -36 dB isnt absolute silence...dB levels are just different sound pressure levels....-36 dB isnt silence...its just very tiny pressure level, the only way to get absolute silence is in a vacuum where soundwaves cant travel anyway...

its like if you hit a drum as faintly as possible, it will still sound.....just very quietly.....

you simply cant expect there to be no sound when hit a key, unless you just use a gate....

correct. that makes sense. -36db isn't silence.
i've managed to solve this a bit by dropping the track mixer volume by a few -dbs
and i get absolute silence. but this is an improvised workaround.

here an example of a reaktor ensemble that works via velocity as volume only:

Stromkraft wrote:

Inversoundzzz wrote: you simply cant expect there to be no sound when hit a key, unless you just use a gate....

Well you can, provided the instrument in question can be set to respond to velocity of 0 with nothing.

hehe yea i know, but its just not good logic, we shouldnt be thinking of velocity as a way to cause silence....silence is caused by the absence of any velocity....not a velocity of zero. because in reality there is no "zero" velocity...when you hit a drum....you cant hit a drum without using some velocity...

if under the hood you program it to accept a velocity of zero as a nulling of the note itself....then fine...but why do that...it's just not good programming'

the NOTE ON.....would be a change from zero...to "not" zero....why? because thats what makes sense....thats how acoustic reality works

once the drumstick hits the drum, velocity cannot be zero.

you could program to say, when velocity = zero, note must = OFF...and when velocity >0, note must = ON

Inversoundzzz wrote:

Stromkraft wrote:

Inversoundzzz wrote: you simply cant expect there to be no sound when hit a key, unless you just use a gate....

Well you can, provided the instrument in question can be set to respond to velocity of 0 with nothing.

hehe yea i know, but its just not good logic, we shouldnt be thinking of velocity as a way to cause silence....silence is caused by the absence of any velocity....not a velocity of zero. because in reality there is no "zero" velocity...when you hit a drum....you cant hit a drum without using some velocity...

if under the hood you program it to accept a velocity of zero as a nulling of the note itself....then fine...but why do that...it's just not good programming'

the NOTE ON.....would be a change from zero...to "not" zero....why? because thats what makes sense....thats how acoustic reality works

once the drumstick hits the drum, velocity cannot be zero.

you could program to say, when velocity = zero, note must = OFF...and when velocity >0, note must = ON

I forgot which ones but velocity of 0 have been used as a "note off" in some instruments and I think is part of the MIDI standard. So I don't think this idea the OP proposes comes from a vacuum. I assume there are some performance benefits when using sequencers.

I have not investigated how instruments in general typically respond to a velocity of 0, but I assume it would be no sound in many cases.

yea hmmm, its the same thing with zebra2 and the way it uses programs, it starts counting at 0, so 0-127....but live starts at 1 and goes to 128.....

i just realized clips have a double program option right at the very end did you know that? hehe....how does that work, i was wondering about that....you have 2 program changes per clip...is that tied to follow actions...?

seems the answer was right under my nose.
making your own velocity sequencer in m4l
is a breeze.

but oddly i can't find such a thing in the user device library
on maxforlive.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9KZgb- ... Jc1rsjLSDi

Inversoundzzz wrote:i just realized clips have a double program option right at the very end did you know that? hehe....how does that work, i was wondering about that....you have 2 program changes per clip...is that tied to follow actions...?

No, I didn't know. I'm occupied with presets themselves rather than program changes. It's so messy with Reaktor Ensembles I want to puke. But that's another discussion.

neeve82 wrote:seems the answer was right under my nose.
making your own velocity sequencer in m4l

OK. I just used the MFL Step Sequencer, which works exactly like how you describe it with Reaktor Monark and Live Collision as well. Mono Seq though.