Ableton Forum

This makes thing difficult for production. Really screws workflow.

Playing midi notes on the pads, select the master channel to adjust effects. Boom, the pad grid is now "off".

At least we could arm the current midi track, and continue. Not possible. Pads still dead.

WTF. How is this useful?

dna598 wrote:This makes thing difficult for production. Really screws workflow.

Playing midi notes on the pads, select the master channel to adjust effects. Boom, the pad grid is now "off".

At least we could arm the current midi track, and continue. Not possible. Pads still dead.

WTF. How is this useful?

It's logical that Push follows the selection and separating where the display are from where the pads are would be confusing for many. I'd like it though.

You likely can mimic what you want by putting your master effects in a rack and lock the display to that rack. I don't have the 2 so can't try.

Yes, it is logical for Push to display the master effects parameters when master track is selected.

It is not logical that the pads become useless, just because there is nothing to "play" on the master track. This doesn't happen with any other midi keyboard controller.

I don't agree that it would be confusing to leave the pads available to midi input when the master track is selected.

Seems pretty basic to me.

Your point is quite valid dna. I can't remember if there's any reason for this to happen or even if it has always been the case, but I'll ask around because it doesn't sound right as it is now.
Cheers
J

[jur] wrote:Your point is quite valid dna. I can't remember if there's any reason for this to happen or even if it has always been the case, but I'll ask around because it doesn't sound right as it is now.
Cheers
J

It's the same thing when selecting group and audio tracks too.

Thanks for picking up on this Jur.

dna598 wrote: It is not logical that the pads become useless, just because there is nothing to "play" on the master track. This doesn't happen with any other midi keyboard controller.

I don't agree that it would be confusing to leave the pads available to midi input when the master track is selected.

It can certainly be confusing unless it can be clearly indicated what tracks you are playing. I'd assume it would be the track you were on before you pressed the Master button. That this would be obvious for you and me doesn't mean it's obvious for everyone else. I tend to not think only from my own personal perspective.

Stromkraft wrote:It can certainly be confusing unless it can be clearly indicated what tracks you are playing. I'd assume it would be the track you were on before you pressed the Master button. That this would be obvious for you and me doesn't mean it's obvious for everyone else. I tend to not think only from my own personal perspective.

It's quite simple, for everybody. And it's already there. It's called the arm record switch

This reminds me of how much I struggled overall with the transition from Live 8 to 9.

The session record button is extremely handy for me. But it relies on a whole new arming paradigm for both standard track arming and also Push.

But then you throw on top of that how Push's notes disappear when you lose focus, that's a whole other can of worms.

The explicit problem is that the expected behavior is that Push acts as a standard midi controller instrument, which would ideally give you static controls that you can input no matter what the circumstance (or even which software).

Instead it is a device that communicates directly with Live and 'while' you're tending to certain activities, it changes functionality accordingly.

So when you select a different channel, you're essentially committing completely to that new environment.

The freaky thing is how later adapters to mimicking some, but not all, of Push's functionality seem to have settled for just a page for note input always, or a page for drum input always, etc.

dna598 wrote:

Stromkraft wrote:It can certainly be confusing unless it can be clearly indicated what tracks you are playing. I'd assume it would be the track you were on before you pressed the Master button. That this would be obvious for you and me doesn't mean it's obvious for everyone else. I tend to not think only from my own personal perspective.

It's quite simple, for everybody. And it's already there. It's called the arm record switch

I don't see that. To me this sounds like you're judging what everyone should think or hold "obvious" to must be what you think.

Stromkraft wrote:

dna598 wrote:

Stromkraft wrote:It can certainly be confusing unless it can be clearly indicated what tracks you are playing. I'd assume it would be the track you were on before you pressed the Master button. That this would be obvious for you and me doesn't mean it's obvious for everyone else. I tend to not think only from my own personal perspective.

It's quite simple, for everybody. And it's already there. It's called the arm record switch

I don't see that. To me this sounds like you're judging what everyone should think or hold "obvious" to must be what you think.

If you look at Push 2, you ll see when a track is armed. It's a circle. Next to the channel name.

dna598 wrote:

Stromkraft wrote:

dna598 wrote:
It's quite simple, for everybody. And it's already there. It's called the arm record switch

I don't see that. To me this sounds like you're judging what everyone should think or hold "obvious" to must be what you think.

If you look at Push 2, you ll see when a track is armed. It's a circle. Next to the channel name.

OK. And this is obvious also when you have 32 tracks and you are looking at the devices on the Master track? If so, then what you seem to want sound more reasonable.

I was thinking that maybe I'd rather have the option to get "pad meters" i e meters made of the pads for in between devices gain to be displayed per column or other functions like that when on the Master track.

In general I think to be able to lock the pads to a specific instrument no matter how you move around the controls is a swell idea. I'd love it myself.

But I also know people that are long time users of the original Push and are still confused by what we have today. Maybe the Push 2 have greater potential for more depth yet easy maneuvering than the original?

Maybe the Push 2 have greater potential for more depth yet easy maneuvering than the original?

Yes, it is easier and displays a lot more dynamic information which makes extra feature requests such as this one a more reasonable possibility over P1.

Honestly, I can't see anyone being "confused" by simply activating the master section to do some tweaks but having the pads remain on the track they were just on.

Another possibility could be (depending on your situation) an extra controller dedicated to master usage or even ipad with touchable or something. That way you have the best of both worlds but a feature to have pads stick to a channel when switching to Master would be welcome.

jestermgee wrote:Honestly, I can't see anyone being "confused" by simply activating the master section to do some tweaks but having the pads remain on the track they were just on.

It is indeed confusing as it is when you have accepted the default function that the Push move where you are in Live — which is then what you expect — and you're locked to a encoder display and move to another track and in Push 1 there is no indication which encoders you're looking at, if you have forgotten you locked these.

To break user expectation is always bad. In this case dna598 do have some compelling arguments for pads to remain active in Push 2 at least, of which one indeed is user expectation. I'm far from sure that's the expectation of a majority of users, but it's certainly not a lot stranger than some other quirks and would probably feel natural. Non-active pads are probably confusing in their own right.

OK, looks like we are all in agreement.

We even seem to have the ears of an Ableton employee, who agreed with the premise quite a few messages back. Brilliant!

I hope Jur tells his lovely colleagues it is also just as important when group, return, and audio tracks are selected, that Push can retain pad use. It's very improvisation unfriendly as it is.

I very much look forward to his reply!

FWIW this catches me out all the time too.