Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Andrey Marchenko
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Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by Andrey Marchenko » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:42 am

Hi, folks.

So why? 8)

yur2die4
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by yur2die4 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:47 am

Personal preference 8)

ekwipt
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by ekwipt » Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:03 am

CAnt be bothered learning new software when live does everything I need and then some

boogaloo
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by boogaloo » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:26 pm

ekwipt wrote:CAnt be bothered learning new software when live does everything I need and then some
This.
I have invested years learning Live inside out to the point I don't even think about it when I use it.
To achieve this level of proficiency with another piece of software would take a lot of time, which is better spent improving your music skills, or engineering skills or whatever.
The software is just a tool, it will not make your music better.

mcnelson
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by mcnelson » Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:48 pm

Push 2 and Max4Live.

Heavily invested in the platform, and happily so. No need to consider alternatives.
Ableton Live::Audio Damage::Sonic Charge::Sugar Bytes

Martin Gifford
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by Martin Gifford » Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:59 pm

Andrey Marchenko wrote:Hi, folks.

So why? 8)
1) TIME: All software makers should create a free logical fun fast-track video series to thoroughly learn the platform basics in two hours. Then have logical chapters and subchapters so you can find any topics instantly in case you forget. I mean, if you want people to swap to your platform, then you've got to remove all barriers to the sale. They must make it easy to get started. For example, I've watched maybe 40 FL studio videos, and still don't understand how to get started optimally. I keep going in circles between the channel rack, the pattern painting section, midi editor, finding instruments, etc. - absolute basics. Do they want people to buy it or not?

2) GUI FATIGUE: Orange-ness everywhere. Yikes. And oldschool pixilated GUI. If it was cobalt blue and slicker looking, then I'd give it another go.

Stromkraft
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:26 am

Andrey Marchenko wrote:Hi, folks.

So why? 8)
Because I'm not interested getting into another set of problems that I know nothing about. Bitwig isn't problem free. So I can't be bothered as I'm busy making music. As Live improved considerably with 9.2, I see few reasons for moving to anything else. Maybe in 5 years or if Live 10 is a letdown.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

Angstrom
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by Angstrom » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:56 am

Like all UK Ableton users I receive a an EU governmental grant to continue using Ableton. It's about €127 each month, so its a little less that the money Cubase users receive, but it's OK. It keeps me going.

One time in 2014 I mentioned publicly that I was thinking of changing to Bitwig and a representative of the business ouflow reciprocal exchange unit contacted me to arrange the transfer of my account from the Live to Bitwig. Of course, you will know that the Bitwig monthly payment is merely €62.40 and there is a pause in payments during transfer of up to 6.5 decimal weeks. So I confess that the difference and delay made me cancel the move.

Sadly when the UK leaves the EU I (like all UK Ableton users) will no longer recieve this payment, and so I will probably have to go back to using a traditional British sequencer package.

Tarekith
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by Tarekith » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:09 am

Bitwig brings some interesting ideas to the table, but a for me personally I find the interface really cluttered compared to Live. Also, no Push 2 which totally reinvigorated me and how I use Live.

ash1
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by ash1 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:01 am

there is a push 2 for bitwig
http://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/Bitwig/Bitwig.html
the problem with bitwig is its trying very hard to be ableton
having tried the bitwig demo you soon miss all the features of ableton very quickly
maybe bitwig 2 will be another matter though
it takes so long to get to grips with ableton and all its features
that switching to another daw that is similar seems a non starter
push 2 and ableton seem the perfect match

braduro
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by braduro » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:45 pm

A dream for producers, one might argue. But still not a dream for performers. Too many layers of abstraction. Too much mousing about. Robust editing doesn't equal confident, on-the-spot decisions.
That, and everything everyone said so far.

Believe me, I like to keep an open mind. Maybe Bitwig is the Snapchat of DAWs and I'm just too set in my ways. But I promise you, each year I download it again, and just like acquiring a taste for chicken livers, I try once again to understand how its captured people's imagination.

Idonotlikebroccoli
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by Idonotlikebroccoli » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:20 pm

I find Bitwig to look messy and hard on the eyes. Despite its numerous great features that Live is missing, little things get in the way for me - like you can't use your up/down keys when changing parameters on native device controls, there's no "chord" MIDI device, can't expand mixer track height or width, no key mapping, no time signature changes, no spectrum waveform in EQ, etc.

With 10+ years of using Live, using any other DAW feels weird, like handwriting letters in reverse. When beginners ask, I usually recommend Live, Bitwig and FL Studio, and tell them that they're all great choices.
Please vote! Live 10's "multi" clip editing should allow selection+editing of multiple clips in one action:

(L10-SUG-0228) Multiple MIDI transpose

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=228094

Stromkraft
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:37 pm

ash1 wrote: it takes so long to get to grips with ableton and all its features
that switching to another daw that is similar seems a non starter
push 2 and ableton seem the perfect match
So maybe if you don't know anything, that's a viable strategy. On the other hand if you know enough to keep rolling this is all a big non-issue. Especially as Bitwig is far from perfect in comparison. As with any DAW if there is a specific feature set that you feel you need and must have, then don't wait. On the other hand if you feel Bitwig is very "Eh" it's not even a contender.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

ash1
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by ash1 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:21 am

:roll:

Stromkraft
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Re: Why you still with Livw when we have Bitwig?

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:40 am

ash1 wrote::roll:
What? I'm not saying Bitwig isn't an interesting DAW. Just that since Live 9.2 whatever shortcomings there were, that actually affected music production, are largely gone. While not everything is resolved I view whatever issues left as quite acceptable, even though I do want to see further development and bugs fixed.

It's kinda obvious that if anyone feel Bitwig have compelling advantages that would warrant the effort to learn a new DAW and switching the set of issues (and advantages) Live might have to the set of problems Bitwig has (already mentioned advantages), then one should go ahead and switch.

But if you have invested years in actually getting really good in making music using Live to the point of the DAW fading into the background and you don't feel there are major drawbacks, then you really need some compelling reasons that satisfies real needs. This will of course be different for different people. I just gave my view as that seemed to be what you asked people to share.

I'll continue to follow Bitwig but I don't see myself switching any time soon. Actually all producers I know well are very disinterested in Bitwig. Likely because their needs are being met.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

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