Ableton Forum

Hi All,

I want to upgrade my setup to an audio interface with no more than 6 outputs with lowest possible latency.

I'm using a lot of VST plugins ableton (20+) and a lot of audio/MIDI channels (40+) live on stage.

Currently my setup is RME Fireface 400 on a Mac Book Pro 2010 and with 512 samples buffer I do get drops - which I definitely need to get rid of while live playing on stage.

I'm leaning towards a Thunderbolt Interface - Focusrite Clarett 4Pre and hopefully upgrading my Mac Book Pro to the 2016 version with a Thunderbolt connection.

Any Thoughts? Suggestions? Experiences with this or other Thunderbolt interfaces?

Kind Regards

Dariusz

...both usb and firewire take some of your cpu so with a 2010 macbook pro and that many channels drops are likely to occur...i don't know about thunderbolt interfaces but i was told by an rme employee that the lowest possible latency is still provided by pciexpress interfaces...and that's the reason i still haven't replaced my good ol' rme multiface (version 1)...i hope it still works with the new macbooks!...

Thank You for Your reply.

So if You are using sonnet thunderbolt adapter You (theoretically) are bound to limitations and potential of thunderbolt. Would You say the difference between this kind of setup and Firewire/USB is noticeable?

Kind Regards

scheffkoch wrote:still haven't replaced my good ol' rme multiface (version 1)...i hope it still works with the new macbooks!...

How you reckon you're going to connect to a cardbuss-less modern MBP?

...right now (with a late 2011 mbp) i use a sonnet thunderbolt - expresscard adapter...that works absolutely flawless!...with the new mbp i ordered i'll have to use an usb-c to thunderbolt adapter first...i hope this will also work...i'll see...

"So if You are using sonnet thunderbolt adapter You (theoretically) are bound to limitations and potential of thunderbolt. Would You say the difference between this kind of setup and Firewire/USB is noticeable?"

...the rme guy told me with a pcie connection i'm able to lower the latency one step comparing to an usb interface...meaning if a setup with a babyface runs smooth at 512 than it should be able to run at 256 samples with a pcie interface...the difference of usb, firewire and thunderbolt is more the ability to have more and more tracks before getting crackles, not reduced latency...

...regarding your setup: with that many tracks i reckon the limiting factor is your computer...if you plan on getting a new one i would first keep the fireface (cause its a very good interface!) and look for a solution to connect it to the new computer...there are e.g. some usb-c docks which provide firewire...

scheffkoch wrote:...right now (with a late 2011 mbp) i use a sonnet thunderbolt - expresscard adapter...that works absolutely flawless!...

Interesting.

Thanks for all the infos scheffkoch!

What someone said above - new laptop + firewire adapter.

Even just upgrading your current laptop to a second hand 2011 or later MBP model would be a huge improvement. There was a huge increase in audio calculation performance in the 2nd gen i7 CPUs that came out with the early 2011 MBPs - for comparison - my early 2011 MBP with 2.3Ghz 2nd gen i7 CPU was about equivalent to my old overclocked 4Ghz 1st gen I7 CPU in a high end (in its day) desktop PC - thats a hell of a jump considering slower memory in the laptop.

OTOH the new intel skylake and later CPUs and chipsets that came in end of 2015 / early 2016 (not sure when they made it into the new MBPs) are a similar leap in overall system performance compared to the previous models - so a new MBP would give you a massive boost.

As for thunderbolt audio interface - I cannot see that point at current prices unless you are running a huge number of channels - 200+. My 1st gen RME UFX on my old 2011 MBP manages 128 samples at 44.1Khz over USB2 quite happily and I can up to 256 if I really need to stress my laptop with a huge set or very CPU hungry plugins. You already have a good audio interface with known good low latency drivers and TBH if you switch to something else you will probably just curse its drivers and regret not saving your pennies for a new laptop.

makaruk wrote: Currently my setup is RME Fireface 400 on a Mac Book Pro 2010 and with 512 samples buffer I do get drops - which I definitely need to get rid of while live playing on stage.

When do you get these? Is the CPU working hard or not when it happens? If it is, chances are that your Mac is too slow as Khazul just suggested. If not, then have you tried updating to Sierra and used the new drivers? I have hard time imaging better latency than with RME myself, but I haven't tried those Focusrites.

Thanks for the info Khazul - I am now seriously considering spending more on a new MBP instead on a new soundcard, thanks to You info. I am considering the latest of retinas before the Touch Bar Mac Book Pro - either 2.2 Ghz or 2.5 Ghz Retina 2015.

@Stormkraft - Thanks for Your reply - I get the drops when I play on a keyboard + sequenced MIDI notes from ableton using Komplete Kontrol software instruments. Whenever polyphony increases and the CPU meter goes up to 60 - 70% on ableton there is a big chance of getting audio drops - which on stage are a disastrous mistake for me. I am using 44100 khz rate on ableton. While on standby mode - without any playback and when the sequencer is stopped - ableton gives me 25% CPU use when idle.

makaruk wrote:I am considering the latest of retinas before the Touch Bar Mac Book Pro - either 2.2 Ghz or 2.5 Ghz Retina 2015.

There's also the 2.8 gHz 15-Inch (Dual Graphics/Force Touch) with Retina Display.

...ok...i've set up the new mbp and can confirm that the old multiface still works flawless!...so it's:
usb-c to thunderbolt 2 adapter - thunderbolt 2 cable to sonnet pcie dock - pcie card to multiface...awesome...ha...the new mbp is the fourth computer (third laptop) i use the multiface with...

it would be hard to recommend a cheap Focusrite interface over an RME for live work. as other people have said above, your main limitation is your old computer.

Thanks for your response guys.

I am literally on the border between deciding on the newest MBP Touch Bar 2016 and the previous Retina 2.2 Ghz 2015.

Much as I would like to go for the 2016 option my main concern is the cnnectivity - I would need to connect USB C to Firewire. I just heard from an apple dealer that the apple dongle USB C - Thunderbolt 2 is nothing but trouble - the speeds drop to 10mbps and with the video is sometimes just stops working. Have you had any experience with that? Especially that I would then need another "dongle" to go from Thunderbolt 2 to firewire - sounds like a nightmare.

Docking stations are much recommended for connecting usb c to thunderbolt 2 but unfortunately I actually did not find any Docking station providing that. There is one upcoming in february with a firewire 800 conection but I have to do my shopping in january (preferably ASAP) - not to mention the fact that usually Apple does not accept returns in case something doesn't work.

@scheffkoch - did You test your apple dongle USB C - Thunderbolt 2 with another adapter to connect anything with Firewire?