Ableton Forum

I've used Ableton since I got my first mac, that was about 5 years from. Now I've decided to build my own PC (spec at bottom of post), when I took this decision I wasn't so sure how Ableton would run on windows 10. I had my doubts, im not going to lie. One of my friends had Ableton on a HP notebook... it instigated a certain feel of doubt. However, I was sure my build was going to surpass my buddy's notebook by lightyears. So I decided to follow through.

Long story short, im semi-content with the choice I've made. The files render smoothly, and Ableton launches in less than a second 'nice!' I thought has I started my PC master race journey. Though things wouldn't get so smooth afterwards. As I kept working and building my sets my computer started to get (twitchy/glitchy/slower); Let me explain myself, when I zoomed into a new automation lane my program would get slighty laggy. The heavier the file, the more clicks and snaps I would get--this is what really got at me, we arent even talking 50 minutes long files.... nah this is at most 10 minutes. So I've been force to increase my buffer size to 512 samples, this is almost twice the amount I had as default on my 2012 macbook pro(tuned out RAM and memory), and still, I get those annoying cracks every 2 minutes.

Ive followed Ableton recommend advices, online guides from forums, videos from youtubes, I even ask my friend (HP notebook kid) how could I improve performance on windows, in order for Ableton to run smoother. No change what.so.ever. At this point I dont know what else to do... Ive submitted myself to the clipping and cracking. I think im starting to develop a tic because of it.

Afterall, I really love Ableton. too much actually. I love it so much, I one day want to be part of their developer team and help DEBUG this shitty glitches you get on Windows... Im looking over at you Option.txt file! Anyways Ive got too much time and work put into this DAW and all I can say is... it pains me to see it act this way on Windows OS. I dont know if its something that is inherited from the code, or it's just simply bugging out. Either way, Im not giving up on Ableton so easily, and neither I am on my new PC. But worst case scenario I'll sell my build.

TL:DR Even a badass custom build windows PC (unless you got Deadmau5 setup) won't be able to fully live through the pains of Live's buggy Windows structure. I dont know what else to do in order to fix the tic Ive develop because of the annoying/constant clipping and cracking and popping.... *heavy sigh*. I might have to sell the PC ive build with so much effort/blood/tears/sweat (first build I've ever done).

Moving on. Here is the sauce/specs:

- Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor
- Corsair H115i 104.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
- Asus Z170-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
- Corsair Vengeance LED 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
- Crucial MX300 525GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
- Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
- EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 8GB FTW DT GAMING ACX 3.0 Video Card
- Corsair Carbide 400C ATX Mid Tower Case
- SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply.

I can run 64 samples in my laptop with faaar worse specs, when I use an ASIO driver. (When using MME/DirectX then I have to crank it up to more than 1k)

So, 512 samples? My guess is you are not using proper ASIO drivers.

pottering wrote:I can run 64 samples in my laptop with faaar worse specs, when I use an ASIO driver. (When using MME/DirectX then I have to crank it up to more than 1k)

So, 512 samples? My guess is you are not using proper ASIO drivers.

I actually got a Xonar DSX soundcard, however I mostly use my Komplete Audio Interface as my default device.... I do have the lastest update. It still lags, pops and crackles. :/

Weird, I'm just using ASIO without any interface or soundcard, 64 samples, no abnormal crackles. Windows 10 x64, Live 9.7.1 x64.

pottering wrote:Weird, I'm just using ASIO without any interface or soundcard, 64 samples, no abnormal crackles. Windows 10 x64, Live 9.7.1 x64.

Sorry I didn't elaborate, the Xonar soundcard works with ASIO. But yeah, pretty weird. maybe ill just reinstall all the driver. I dont see why my audio interface wouldn't perform just as good. It works fine with my mac
:/

Windows user here. I have a many years old (at least 6) Intel I5 with 32 GB of RAM and an Intel motherboard, 2 Solid state drives, an ESI USB soundcard at the moment. The system is running fine at 64 samples, but I suspect my motherboard has some problems in dealing with too many USB peripherals. It's not a huge problem anyway, I've had random disconnects of the soundcard but I've traced that problem down to a general USB problem when the ports are too crowded and with high bandwidth/high current consumption. If I don't connect too many external hard disks (2 or 3), everything is fine.

The soundcard declares a 3 ms total (input + output) latency time when used with its own ASIO drivers , but in my opinion it's a bit higher (I think it's due to the internal buffers of the soundcard). I think I'll upgrade my system this year because - especially using Push 2 - the performance can get a bit sluggish with crowded projects (I'm talking about 16 tracks of mixed audio and MIDI with soft synths, many inserts like EQs, various modulation plugins, reverbs, compressors and delays, and some Max for Live stuff). But overall, I'm happy. No crackles or audio gaps during composition, arrangement and editing sessions which run for hours with multiple MIDI ins and outs connected, mostly USB (maximum performance setup with 3 performers when a project is started from scratch: 2 Keyboards, Push2, additional MIDI interface to occasionally connect an Access Virus rev. A and/or a Doepfer Pocket Dial, 2 mono audio ins for microphones and instruments, including the Virus. The items connected are generally less when the project becomes more complex during editing).

The soundcard for stability has to be connected to a 2.0 USB root hub using a single port of a pair, leaving the other unused; then everything is fine. I'm pretty happy with my workflow, although for me it's only a hobby so this is certainly not a professional producer opinion. It is, anyway, the opinion of a system administrator with some experience.

The only thing I find interesting in Macs is Audio Core, and the fact that I'm not using Liine Lemur because the Windows editor has an ugly and buggy user interface. It looks like the non-Windows options concerning Lemur are better. The MIDI connectivity seems more refined in Macs too, but all things considered I can't even remotely think about switching to Apple for a number of reason, the main one being that I'm completely unwilling to learn yet another GUI and yet another OS. By the way, I find OSX's GUI clumsier and more user-hostile than the first versions of Unity. All things considered, I consider the stability of Windows when relating to audio processing rather good.

My system: Core i7 4790k, 16 gb RAM, nvdia 950gtx, SSD. Windows 10, Live 9.7, Push and RME fireface UC. I have not come across the problem you describe.

Nevertheless your Xonar DSX sound card doesn't have proper ASIo drivers. And the NI drivers for the Audio 6 are quite mediocre.

Drivers are very very important in windows, it is really its weakest part when it comes to audio performance.

ASIO4All is not a proper ASIO driver it is in fact a wrapper for the native windows driver so it tricks the system, but the performance is bad compared to proper ASIO drivers.

albieg wrote:Windows user here. I have a many years old (at least 6) Intel I5 with 32 GB of RAM and an Intel motherboard, 2 Solid state drives, an ESI USB soundcard at the moment. The system is running fine at 64 samples, but I suspect my motherboard has some problems in dealing with too many USB peripherals. It's not a huge problem anyway, I've had random disconnects of the soundcard but I've traced that problem down to a general USB problem when the ports are too crowded and with high bandwidth/high current consumption. If I don't connect too many external hard disks (2 or 3), everything is fine.

The soundcard declares a 3 ms total (input + output) latency time when used with its own ASIO drivers , but in my opinion it's a bit higher (I think it's due to the internal buffers of the soundcard). I think I'll upgrade my system this year because - especially using Push 2 - the performance can get a bit sluggish with crowded projects (I'm talking about 16 tracks of mixed audio and MIDI with soft synths, many inserts like EQs, various modulation plugins, reverbs, compressors and delays, and some Max for Live stuff). But overall, I'm happy. No crackles or audio gaps during composition, arrangement and editing sessions which run for hours with multiple MIDI ins and outs connected, mostly USB (maximum performance setup with 3 performers when a project is started from scratch: 2 Keyboards, Push2, additional MIDI interface to occasionally connect an Access Virus rev. A and/or a Doepfer Pocket Dial, 2 mono audio ins for microphones and instruments, including the Virus. The items connected are generally less when the project becomes more complex during editing).

The soundcard for stability has to be connected to a 2.0 USB root hub using a single port of a pair, leaving the other unused; then everything is fine.

In comparison to your setup I would have to say it is the amount of peripheral devices connected to the motherboard at once. My questions: 1) Are you connecting all these devices directly to the I/O of the motherboard? 2) 2.0 USB dont have the same amount of power affordability and data transfer as a modern 3.1, which have been commonly spread on most new devices/motherboards. With this being said have you try the connectivity in a 3.1? The follow up question would be if theres any noticeable difference in the performance...

As in my case, I have only the main peripheral devices (Mouse, Keyboard, and Audio Interface) connected to the motherboard I/O. Other than that I use the case usb ports (2-3.1 USB & 2-2.0 USB). Although my audio interface is directly connected to the motherboard USB connection, I still get the lack of performance aforementioned. I dont think it has anything to do with lack of power supply in my case. I got a pretty suited up power supply that gives me enough head room for upgrade and/or use of extra peripheral devices.

I'll keep searching for more info on my Audio Interface connectivity and compatibility errors with Windows... that leaves me with the reinstalled drivers, which I have done so, and theres no difference. My program is still cracking and popping.

login wrote:My system: Core i7 4790k, 16 gb RAM, nvdia 950gtx, SSD. Windows 10, Live 9.7, Push and RME fireface UC. I have not come across the problem you describe.

Nevertheless your Xonar DSX sound card doesn't have proper ASIo drivers. And the NI drivers for the Audio 6 are quite mediocre.

Drivers are very very important in windows, it is really its weakest part when it comes to audio performance.

ASIO4All is not a proper ASIO driver it is in fact a wrapper for the native windows driver so it tricks the system, but the performance is bad compared to proper ASIO drivers.

Thats what I was thinking, unfortunately I cant just dump my Audio Interface... Any suggestions as to routing? I do have the ASIO driver and ASIO4All(which i barely use).

So wait, just to clarify, are you always using some kind of Asio drivers?

Or are you changing around between asio, mme, wasapi? You should always be using some kind of asio of you want the most consistent troubleshooting. Asio4all isn't perfect, but it's better than a non-asio option.

iD_Ego wrote: In comparison to your setup I would have to say it is the amount of peripheral devices connected to the motherboard at once. My questions: 1) Are you connecting all these devices directly to the I/O of the motherboard? 2) 2.0 USB dont have the same amount of power affordability and data transfer as a modern 3.1, which have been commonly spread on most new devices/motherboards. With this being said have you try the connectivity in a 3.1? The follow up question would be if theres any noticeable difference in the performance...

I'll keep searching for more info on my Audio Interface connectivity and compatibility errors with Windows... that leaves me with the reinstalled drivers, which I have done so, and theres no difference. My program is still cracking and popping.

To put it shortly: I see no good reason to use a USB 3.1 connection with USB 2.0 peripherals as long as I am within the total specified amp limits for the root hubs. Of course, you also have to be certain that the ports aren't underpowered and that specifications are fully followed, and that's a problem I've seen a number of times on different computers. The proper answer about performance would be a rather long one, but I'd say that as long as high bandwidth usage peripherals are connected to separate root hubs performance is not a problem.

In your case, I'd try enabling the internal soundcard, try both DX drivers and ASIO4All and see if it makes a difference to understand if your Xonar soundcard has some kind of role in this problem. Your choice of soundcard seems rather odd for music production, to be honest. However I wouldn't connect it to a USB 3.1 port, as long as it's a 2.0 interface, and I'd make sure it is the only thing connected to a single hub, if possible, taking a look at the device manager. When I connected my old M-Audio Fast Track Pro to a USB 3 port, even via a USB 2 hub, it went silent after a few minutes of playback with MME drivers (I wasn't using Ableton Live at the time). I had a quick look at the documentation and I discovered it didn't work with USB 3 ports. Strange as it may seem, it wasn't really a surprise to me. These may not be the times in which SCSI controllers sharing the same IRQ with an Ethernet port ended up trashing file systems with random streams of IP packets, but a bit of care is always needed.

Edit: although I checked the DSX specs and saw it is a PCI-E card, I treated it like a USB soundcard. Sorry for the mistake. General rules about reducing systems to a minimum during troubleshooting still apply.

I used to have a (good at the time) laptop that would give me crackles and pops intermittently. I ended up downloading a troubleshooting tool that helped me figure out that the issue was my wireless network adapter. With it disabled, everything was golden. It was unfortunate that I needed to remember when gigging to disable the wifi, but I got used to it.

Perhaps some device on your beastly PC is causing the issues, maybe even a Bluetooth radio or something.

pottering wrote:I can run 64 samples in my laptop with faaar worse specs, when I use an ASIO driver. (When using MME/DirectX then I have to crank it up to more than 1k)

So, 512 samples? My guess is you are not using proper ASIO drivers.

I don't believe this.

Something you can check: I once had pops and cracks way before hitting 100% CPU use, it took me months to figure out the problem, but one day I used a HW monitor software and discovered my CPU was running too hot, above recommended levels. I opened my PC and the fan was fun of dust. Cleaning and a new fan lowered the temps.

Other stuff that might give you problems: energy settings, economy mode throttles the system, use the performance mode or max every setting.

kitekrazy wrote:

pottering wrote:I can run 64 samples in my laptop with faaar worse specs, when I use an ASIO driver. (When using MME/DirectX then I have to crank it up to more than 1k)

So, 512 samples? My guess is you are not using proper ASIO drivers.

I don't believe this.

Maybe you are hung up in the "faaar worse specs" phrase?

Anyhow, I'm not lying, when using MME/DirectX I have to set it around 1100~1200 Samples so it doesn't crackle with the Test Tone simulation at 80%, when I switch to ASIO I can set it to 64 Samples (in its own settings in Hardware Setup) and it does not crackle with the same Test Tone simulation at 80%.